Position Defender Discussion
- Thread starter IDIG
- Start date
- Joined
- 6 Jul 2012
- Messages
- 4,890
- Likes
- 11,150
- AFL Club
- West Coast
ha ha, too much information creates uncertainty, so ironic.
Uncertainty is because your heart says Lloyd and your head says No Lloyd. Good worker B18, have seen this comment on this site and Lloyd is no longer in my side. Defence always seems the hardest position for both premium and rookies.
Think Rowsus may have done some work a few years back which showed defence changes the most.
Looking at top 6 priced players, some thoughts:
Lloyd - scores fell away once Dawson also became rebounding option post bye
Houli - has games played of 12, 18, 13, 19 over last 4 years. Is he an upgrade target?
Hurn - started him last year which was a win early on. Age against, calf injury a signal.
Wiliams - average boosted by time in mids. does this revert.
Daniel - two hamstring injuries LY - must have the shortest hamstrings in the league is the issue!!
Stewart - injured preseason
Uncertainty is because your heart says Lloyd and your head says No Lloyd. Good worker B18, have seen this comment on this site and Lloyd is no longer in my side. Defence always seems the hardest position for both premium and rookies.
Think Rowsus may have done some work a few years back which showed defence changes the most.
Looking at top 6 priced players, some thoughts:
Lloyd - scores fell away once Dawson also became rebounding option post bye
Houli - has games played of 12, 18, 13, 19 over last 4 years. Is he an upgrade target?
Hurn - started him last year which was a win early on. Age against, calf injury a signal.
Wiliams - average boosted by time in mids. does this revert.
Daniel - two hamstring injuries LY - must have the shortest hamstrings in the league is the issue!!
Stewart - injured preseason
I used to have a theory (possibly borrowed from someone else here?) that the Swans used to essentially give their mids a mini rest by playing them forward (or similar) for a game.
They seemed to have a good record of churning out 22 @ 100-110 type seasons, but would seldom go 115+ because there would be the odd down game.
I don’t know if it was valid in the first place, or if it applies to their defenders, but perhaps it could.
They seemed to have a good record of churning out 22 @ 100-110 type seasons, but would seldom go 115+ because there would be the odd down game.
I don’t know if it was valid in the first place, or if it applies to their defenders, but perhaps it could.
Lloyd is a bit of an iffy one for me. If he looks to be taking kick duties in the JLT he’s a near certainty to give you 20 games at 105 and he’s likely the only defender you can confidently say will do that.
His kick ins were absolutely putrid a lot of the time in the back half of last year though and I won’t be at all surprised if the task has been given elsewhere.
If Dawson looks to be the beneficiary, I think he’s very hard to leave out. An 86 average with six scores under 70, if those games are pushed to 75 then he’s already up over 90. Paired with Hill he makes a lot of sense and a starting pick in my opinion.
I’m an unabashed fan though, so I’m probably a bit biased but truly believe he’ll become a very good player in the near future. There aren’t many 190cm 90kg players who can use the ball like he does.
My biggest worry isn’t whether he can score well in that role but that he’ll predominantly be used as a forward flanker this year though. Swans defence stocks were super thin at times last year and I reckon he may have been in defence out of necessity rather than preference. Pair that with their obvious lack of scoring power and it doesn’t inspire a lot of confidence.
Close watch I reckon, not keen enough to lock either of them in before I see what the swans are doing this season.
His kick ins were absolutely putrid a lot of the time in the back half of last year though and I won’t be at all surprised if the task has been given elsewhere.
If Dawson looks to be the beneficiary, I think he’s very hard to leave out. An 86 average with six scores under 70, if those games are pushed to 75 then he’s already up over 90. Paired with Hill he makes a lot of sense and a starting pick in my opinion.
I’m an unabashed fan though, so I’m probably a bit biased but truly believe he’ll become a very good player in the near future. There aren’t many 190cm 90kg players who can use the ball like he does.
My biggest worry isn’t whether he can score well in that role but that he’ll predominantly be used as a forward flanker this year though. Swans defence stocks were super thin at times last year and I reckon he may have been in defence out of necessity rather than preference. Pair that with their obvious lack of scoring power and it doesn’t inspire a lot of confidence.
Close watch I reckon, not keen enough to lock either of them in before I see what the swans are doing this season.
- Joined
- 4 Jul 2012
- Messages
- 839
- Likes
- 2,748
- AFL Club
- North Melb.
I remember seeing an article late last year (after rd 22 if i recall correctly) that had the top 5 players from each club that took kick ins. It may have also included what % were effective but im not 100% sure on this. I've tried looking for it with no luck. Can anyone point me in the right direction?
It was an article on the AFL website dated 22nd Aug 2019 2018, link below for your reference.
Teams Kings of the Kick-Ins
Teams Kings of the Kick-Ins
I see I see - I had a gut feeling it was @Rowsus (many of my theories are borrowed from him) but it looks like I got my Melbourne supporters mixed up!
I recall checking at the time, and confirming that quite a few of their players missed very few games - which supports the mini rest strategy, but could also be consistent with the idea that they may simply plan through injuries more often (leading to occasional lower scores, but also helping them miss fewer games).
From memory guys like JPK, Parker, previously Hanners and even Kieran Jack had a pretty good record of getting on the park for 21-22 games. More recently I think Lloyd has been very durable, Buddy has probably played more at Sydney than Hawthorn (?) and Heeney always seems to be playing through a niggle of some sort ... so I think they do seem to manage injuries differently to some others.
I recall checking at the time, and confirming that quite a few of their players missed very few games - which supports the mini rest strategy, but could also be consistent with the idea that they may simply plan through injuries more often (leading to occasional lower scores, but also helping them miss fewer games).
From memory guys like JPK, Parker, previously Hanners and even Kieran Jack had a pretty good record of getting on the park for 21-22 games. More recently I think Lloyd has been very durable, Buddy has probably played more at Sydney than Hawthorn (?) and Heeney always seems to be playing through a niggle of some sort ... so I think they do seem to manage injuries differently to some others.
I found it (I think 
)...Post #345 is what you want as it's in a nice summary table thanks to @Erich1036
HS SuperCoach Articles - Post #345
)...Post #345 is what you want as it's in a nice summary table thanks to @Erich1036HS SuperCoach Articles - Post #345
- Joined
- 4 Jul 2012
- Messages
- 839
- Likes
- 2,748
- AFL Club
- North Melb.
I found it (I think )...Post #345 is what you want as it's in a nice summary table thanks to @Erich1036
HS SuperCoach Articles - Post #345
)...Post #345 is what you want as it's in a nice summary table thanks to @Erich1036HS SuperCoach Articles - Post #345
I found it (I think )...Post #345 is what you want as it's in a nice summary table thanks to @Erich1036
HS SuperCoach Articles - Post #345
)...Post #345 is what you want as it's in a nice summary table thanks to @Erich1036HS SuperCoach Articles - Post #345
Can't find it apart from this, which goes over all positions. or for JLT https://www.afl.com.au/news/69277/the-new-kickin-kings-whos-taking-them-whos-playing-on
AFL’s quirky stat leaders revealed mid-way through 2019 season
Most of us know who gets a lot of disposals per game and who kicks the goals but do you know who has spent the most time on the ground this season? What about running bounces? See the AFL’s quirky stats leaders for 2019.
Dan Batten, Herald Sun
June 5, 2019 10:15am
James Sicily in action for the Hawks. Picture: Michael Klein
There are a number of statistics taken in footy, with disposals, marks, kicks and goals the major ones we rate a player’s performance on.
But there are a number of statistics that aren’t available to us at the click of a button — some of them are quirky, but also quite fascinating.
Check out the unknown stats leaders below.
CLICK HERE TO SUBSCRIBE TO THE SUPERFOOTY PODCAST
KICK-INS
— Most kick-ins taken: Shannon Hurn (86)
— Most play on from kick-ins: Jake Lloyd (67)
When the AFL announced the new kick-in rules — allowing players to waltz out of the square without kicking to themselves — the eyes of SuperCoach players lit up. While it hasn’t made a significant impact to defenders across the board, two defenders in particular have reaped the rewards of the freedom.
West Coast skipper Shannon Hurn is the man guilty of sprinting to the goalsquare the most after a behind is scored, taking 86 kick-ins across the season.
However, Swans rebounder Jake Lloyd has played on from the most kick-ins this season, doing so 67 times — more than six times per match.
SUPERCOACH: DEFENSIVE BYE PLANS IN DISARRAY
HALL OF FAME: MICK’S GUTSY CALL THAT MADE CRIPPS A BLUE
INDUCTEE: MUM’S TRIBUTE TO SAINTS’ MOST LOYAL SON
Shannon Hurn has taken the most kick-ins of any player this season. Picture: Michael KleinRUNNING BOUNCES
Connor McKenna and Seb Ross (23)
While one name under this category comes as no surprise, many footy fans would be shocked to see Seb Ross here.
We don’t often associate long, raking runs down the wing with contested beast Ross, but the Saints midfielder is leading this category with running defender Connor McKenna.
METRES GAINED
James Sicily (560 per game)
The Hawthorn defender ranks first in the league, averaging 560 metres per game.
He leads this stat due to his tendency to kick rather than handball, recording a 3.35:1 kick to handball ratio.
Sicily also ranks in the top five in the competition for rebound 50s (1st), turnovers (3rd), intercepts (3rd) and marks (4th).
James Sicily in action for the Hawks. Picture: Michael KleinCENTRE BOUNCE ATTENDANCES
Patrick Cripps (253)
He was kept to just 11 disposals by tagger Dylan Clarke on the weekend, but Patrick Cripps has been stationed in the centre square more than any player this season.
The contested animal has attended 253 centre bounces across the season, an average of 23 per game.
The amount of goals conceded by the Blues may have helped boost his numbers in this statistic.
MOST/LEAST TIME ON GROUND
— Most time on ground: Ben Brown (97%) — most have played all matches
— Least time on ground: Luke Davies-Uniake (67%) — minimum eight games
The players who spend the most and least time on the ground both come from the same club.
North Melbourne spearhead Ben Brown has spent a whopping 97 per cent of game time on the ground — an illustration of his phenomenal aerobic capacity.
Putting this into perspective, in a 120-minute game, the Roos goalkicker spends an average of three minutes and twenty four seconds on the bench.
On the flip side, young midfielder Luke Davies Uniacke has spent just 67 per cent of time on ground, the lowest of any player to have played eight matches.
Ben Brown celebrates a goal. Picture: Michael KleinHIGHEST/LOWEST DISPOSAL EFFICIENCY
— Highest: Shannon Hurn (88%) — minimum 20 disposals
— Lowest: Brayden Fiorini (59%) — minimum 20 disposals
Kick-in king Shannon Hurn leads the way in this department, while an emerging Suns midfielder has recorded the worst disposal efficiency of any player this season.
Hurn tends to kick the ball long to a contest — with kicks 40m or longer to a contest classed as effective by Champion Data — especially from kick-ins.
The distributor is averaging 22.8 effective disposals per game — hitting the target 88 per cent of the time.
His retention is even more remarkable considering his kick to handball ratio is just under 4:1 — averaging 20.7 kicks and 5.3 handballs this season
In stark contrast, Brayden Fiorini has hit the target with just 59 per cent of his disposals in 2019.
The Suns midfielder has been registering some good numbers, averaging 28.1 disposals per game (including 18.3 kicks), but hits the target with just 16.5 disposals a match.
HIGHEST/LOWEST HIT-OUTS TO ADVANTAGE
— Highest: Max Gawn (14.7 per game)
— Lowest: Callum Sinclair (5.5 per game)
Max Gawn has been a dominant force in the ruck this season, averaging 42.3 hit-outs per game, and his hit-out to advantage numbers are seeing his teammates get first use out of the middle.
The bearded giant is averaging 14.7 hit-outs to advantage per game, putting the ball in his teammates’ bread basket with 34.8 per cent of his hit-outs.
On the flip side, Swans ruckman Callum Sinclair averages just 5.5 effective hit-outs, despite tallying 27.2 hit-outs per game.
This sees his hit-out rate at a low 20.2 per cent.
Max Gawn has been a dominant force in the ruck this season. Picture: Phil HillyardSCORE ASSISTS
Tom Hawkins (26)
He’s sitting in second spot in the Coleman Medal race, trailing Jeremy Cameron by eight goals, but Tom Hawkins does lead the way in another forward 50 stat.
The unselfish Cat has assisted 26 scores in 2019, averaging 2.4 score assists per game.
Hawkins is in some ominous form this season, tallying 13.9 disposals and booting 31 goals.
INTERCEPTS AND INTERCEPT MARKS
Intercepts — Luke Ryan (103)
Intercept marks — Jeremy McGovern (39)
Luke Ryan has gone to another level this season, recording the most intercept possessions in the competition, averaging 9.4 intercepts per game.
The No.1 man for intercept marks will surprise no one, with Jeremy McGovern clunking 3.5 intercept marks a match — providing a fantastic springboard for the Eagles’ side.
Tom Hawkins leaders two categories — score assists and one-on-one contest wins. Picture: GettyHIGHEST/LOWEST ONE-ON-ONE CONTEST WINS
Highest: Tom Hawkins (50%) — minimum 20 contests
Lowest: Mitch Brown (10%) — minimum 20 contests
This statistic displays the sheer power of Hawkins in one-on-one contests.
The in-form forward wins 50 per cent of one-on-one marking contests — outstanding numbers for a player who is kicked to so often.
It also says a bit about the quality of ball coming his way, with the likes of Gary Ablett, Mitch Duncan and Tim Kelly kicking it long to his advantage.
Bombers forward Mitch Brown comes in at the other side of the spectrum, winning just 10 per cent of one-on-one marking contests in his five games this year.
FREE KICKS FOR AND AGAINST
Free for — Max Gawn (29)
Free against — Shane Mumford (30)
Two of the competition’s leading ruckmen hold the title of most frees for and against.
Demon Max Gawn has been given the most frees of any player in the league, with opposition rucks often giving away free kicks to him in ruck contests due to his height and strength.
The returning Shane Mumford has given away a whopping 30 free kicks despite playing just eight games for the season.
The big man is averaging 3.8 frees against a game, helped by a mammoth nine frees against in Round 7 against young ruckman Rowan Marshall.
AFL’s quirky stat leaders revealed mid-way through 2019 season
Most of us know who gets a lot of disposals per game and who kicks the goals but do you know who has spent the most time on the ground this season? What about running bounces? See the AFL’s quirky stats leaders for 2019.
Dan Batten, Herald Sun
June 5, 2019 10:15am
James Sicily in action for the Hawks. Picture: Michael Klein
There are a number of statistics taken in footy, with disposals, marks, kicks and goals the major ones we rate a player’s performance on.
But there are a number of statistics that aren’t available to us at the click of a button — some of them are quirky, but also quite fascinating.
Check out the unknown stats leaders below.
CLICK HERE TO SUBSCRIBE TO THE SUPERFOOTY PODCAST
KICK-INS
— Most kick-ins taken: Shannon Hurn (86)
— Most play on from kick-ins: Jake Lloyd (67)
When the AFL announced the new kick-in rules — allowing players to waltz out of the square without kicking to themselves — the eyes of SuperCoach players lit up. While it hasn’t made a significant impact to defenders across the board, two defenders in particular have reaped the rewards of the freedom.
West Coast skipper Shannon Hurn is the man guilty of sprinting to the goalsquare the most after a behind is scored, taking 86 kick-ins across the season.
However, Swans rebounder Jake Lloyd has played on from the most kick-ins this season, doing so 67 times — more than six times per match.
SUPERCOACH: DEFENSIVE BYE PLANS IN DISARRAY
HALL OF FAME: MICK’S GUTSY CALL THAT MADE CRIPPS A BLUE
INDUCTEE: MUM’S TRIBUTE TO SAINTS’ MOST LOYAL SON
Shannon Hurn has taken the most kick-ins of any player this season. Picture: Michael KleinRUNNING BOUNCES
Connor McKenna and Seb Ross (23)
While one name under this category comes as no surprise, many footy fans would be shocked to see Seb Ross here.
We don’t often associate long, raking runs down the wing with contested beast Ross, but the Saints midfielder is leading this category with running defender Connor McKenna.
METRES GAINED
James Sicily (560 per game)
The Hawthorn defender ranks first in the league, averaging 560 metres per game.
He leads this stat due to his tendency to kick rather than handball, recording a 3.35:1 kick to handball ratio.
Sicily also ranks in the top five in the competition for rebound 50s (1st), turnovers (3rd), intercepts (3rd) and marks (4th).
James Sicily in action for the Hawks. Picture: Michael KleinCENTRE BOUNCE ATTENDANCES
Patrick Cripps (253)
He was kept to just 11 disposals by tagger Dylan Clarke on the weekend, but Patrick Cripps has been stationed in the centre square more than any player this season.
The contested animal has attended 253 centre bounces across the season, an average of 23 per game.
The amount of goals conceded by the Blues may have helped boost his numbers in this statistic.
MOST/LEAST TIME ON GROUND
— Most time on ground: Ben Brown (97%) — most have played all matches
— Least time on ground: Luke Davies-Uniake (67%) — minimum eight games
The players who spend the most and least time on the ground both come from the same club.
North Melbourne spearhead Ben Brown has spent a whopping 97 per cent of game time on the ground — an illustration of his phenomenal aerobic capacity.
Putting this into perspective, in a 120-minute game, the Roos goalkicker spends an average of three minutes and twenty four seconds on the bench.
On the flip side, young midfielder Luke Davies Uniacke has spent just 67 per cent of time on ground, the lowest of any player to have played eight matches.
Ben Brown celebrates a goal. Picture: Michael KleinHIGHEST/LOWEST DISPOSAL EFFICIENCY
— Highest: Shannon Hurn (88%) — minimum 20 disposals
— Lowest: Brayden Fiorini (59%) — minimum 20 disposals
Kick-in king Shannon Hurn leads the way in this department, while an emerging Suns midfielder has recorded the worst disposal efficiency of any player this season.
Hurn tends to kick the ball long to a contest — with kicks 40m or longer to a contest classed as effective by Champion Data — especially from kick-ins.
The distributor is averaging 22.8 effective disposals per game — hitting the target 88 per cent of the time.
His retention is even more remarkable considering his kick to handball ratio is just under 4:1 — averaging 20.7 kicks and 5.3 handballs this season
In stark contrast, Brayden Fiorini has hit the target with just 59 per cent of his disposals in 2019.
The Suns midfielder has been registering some good numbers, averaging 28.1 disposals per game (including 18.3 kicks), but hits the target with just 16.5 disposals a match.
HIGHEST/LOWEST HIT-OUTS TO ADVANTAGE
— Highest: Max Gawn (14.7 per game)
— Lowest: Callum Sinclair (5.5 per game)
Max Gawn has been a dominant force in the ruck this season, averaging 42.3 hit-outs per game, and his hit-out to advantage numbers are seeing his teammates get first use out of the middle.
The bearded giant is averaging 14.7 hit-outs to advantage per game, putting the ball in his teammates’ bread basket with 34.8 per cent of his hit-outs.
On the flip side, Swans ruckman Callum Sinclair averages just 5.5 effective hit-outs, despite tallying 27.2 hit-outs per game.
This sees his hit-out rate at a low 20.2 per cent.
Max Gawn has been a dominant force in the ruck this season. Picture: Phil HillyardSCORE ASSISTS
Tom Hawkins (26)
He’s sitting in second spot in the Coleman Medal race, trailing Jeremy Cameron by eight goals, but Tom Hawkins does lead the way in another forward 50 stat.
The unselfish Cat has assisted 26 scores in 2019, averaging 2.4 score assists per game.
Hawkins is in some ominous form this season, tallying 13.9 disposals and booting 31 goals.
INTERCEPTS AND INTERCEPT MARKS
Intercepts — Luke Ryan (103)
Intercept marks — Jeremy McGovern (39)
Luke Ryan has gone to another level this season, recording the most intercept possessions in the competition, averaging 9.4 intercepts per game.
The No.1 man for intercept marks will surprise no one, with Jeremy McGovern clunking 3.5 intercept marks a match — providing a fantastic springboard for the Eagles’ side.
Tom Hawkins leaders two categories — score assists and one-on-one contest wins. Picture: GettyHIGHEST/LOWEST ONE-ON-ONE CONTEST WINS
Highest: Tom Hawkins (50%) — minimum 20 contests
Lowest: Mitch Brown (10%) — minimum 20 contests
This statistic displays the sheer power of Hawkins in one-on-one contests.
The in-form forward wins 50 per cent of one-on-one marking contests — outstanding numbers for a player who is kicked to so often.
It also says a bit about the quality of ball coming his way, with the likes of Gary Ablett, Mitch Duncan and Tim Kelly kicking it long to his advantage.
Bombers forward Mitch Brown comes in at the other side of the spectrum, winning just 10 per cent of one-on-one marking contests in his five games this year.
FREE KICKS FOR AND AGAINST
Free for — Max Gawn (29)
Free against — Shane Mumford (30)
Two of the competition’s leading ruckmen hold the title of most frees for and against.
Demon Max Gawn has been given the most frees of any player in the league, with opposition rucks often giving away free kicks to him in ruck contests due to his height and strength.
The returning Shane Mumford has given away a whopping 30 free kicks despite playing just eight games for the season.
The big man is averaging 3.8 frees against a game, helped by a mammoth nine frees against in Round 7 against young ruckman Rowan Marshall.