Opinion Questions For Rowsus

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Rowsus just a quick one, what backline structure are you currently leaning towards and who have you locked into your defence?

It is seriously doing my head in. I'm trying to stay away from mid pricers but I don't think I can avoid them. There are so many teams that have rookies in D5 and D6 and although they look better than mine, I just don't think they are feasible.
 
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Rowsus just a quick one, what backline structure are you currently leaning towards and who have you locked into your defence?

It is seriously doing my head in. I'm trying to stay away from mid pricers but I don't think I can avoid them. There are so many teams that have rookies in D5 and D6 and although they look better than mine, I just don't think they are feasible.
Agreed, my team has progressively looked worse as the depth in defence is filled out. Better to plan for the worst at this stage, easier to unwind to rookies (prior to round 1) rather than upgrade non playing rookies to premiums or mid price value "traps"!

Its crazy the difference it makes on look of the team and how you can compromise elsewhere.
 
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It is seriously doing my head in. I'm trying to stay away from mid pricers but I don't think I can avoid them. There are so many teams that have rookies in D5 and D6 and although they look better than mine, I just don't think they are feasible.
Agreed, my team has progressively looked worse as the depth in defence is filled out. Better to plan for the worst at this stage, easier to unwind to rookies (prior to round 1) rather than upgrade non playing rookies to premiums or mid price value "traps"!

Its crazy the difference it makes on look of the team and how you can compromise elsewhere.
Although it is still early days in the NAB Cup IMO the likely lack of def rookies has always been an issue. Even if one or two reliable ones appear I suspect many teams have structured with one or two def rookies on the field which means no or thin bench cover.

I have already started looking at def players in the 200-250k range that should have reasonable JS at least at the start of the season. This is a group I would normally never consider especially defence, but it might be better to pay more for an expensive but regular 65 than an 80, followed by a donut and some desperate trading to find a replacement. You need to do the maths to work out if it is worthwhile especially if it is costing you a premium somewhere else.

I think if you have gone multi rookies down back and you don't have a lot of cash in reserve to trade up and one gets dropped or injured it could get real ugly real quick.
 

Rowsus

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Hi Rowsus, cheers for providing some awesome reading and insight in this thread!

Just curious of your thoughts on a couple players (apologies if you've already covered them):
Brodie Smith, Rory Sloane, Sam Docherty and Dustin Martin

And also curious to see your opinion on how much money people should start with in the bank (if any) for future trades once the season starts, I currently have about 100k in the bank and i'm wondering if it's worth potentially strengthening my team a touch more now or saving that to allow for more flexibility once the season gets going.
Hi JMLP, welcome aboard. :)
I'm glad I'm entertaining and informing you.

Brodie Smith - I think we need to bank one or two Defs this year, that we are confident will play close to every game, and will more than likely finish top 8 on the Defs PIT60 list. Of the Defs priced over $480k, the 2 that I feel most confident about, when comparing risk to price, are Smith and Simpson. He will more than likely start in my team.

Rory Sloane - Will go anywhere from from 104 - 120. There aren't too many I rate a chance to get a 120 this season, but he's amongst them. Having said that, I wrote a few days ago, I rate Priddis more likely than Sloane to go 110+, but Sloane more likely than Priddis to go 115+, and I hold with that. Priddis is more bankable, but Sloane has more potential upside. He's a slight risk to fail you, but probably nearly as good a chance to have you cheering a 115+ season. I won't be starting him, but won't try and tell anyone they shouldn't either.

Sam Docherty - I've gone slightly cold on him, after he sat in my team for around 10 - 12 weeks. If he shows us something more positive in the NAB Cup games to come, he could easily slot back into my team, but for now, he's just outside of it. If 2 or 3 Rookie Defs pop up in the next few weeks, he'd want to look very impressive to make my team.

Dustin Martin - Has never been out of my team, and was the first Fwd I picked. Outside of Gray, I think Martin is just about the safest pick to finish top 8 in the end of season PIT70 Fwd's list this season.

Money kept in the bank - don't aim to keep any money in the bank, but don't spend it just to spend it. If you pick your team, and you're happy with it, and you've got $50-$60k left over, just sit on it! The only time to spend that money is, if you are more than confident using it will bring some benefit. Trading a $130k Rookie up to a $180k Rookie, just because you have the cash is ridiculous, unless you solidly believe he's a better pick. If you get to the end of picking your team, and there's no cash leftover, that's fine too. Don't change a pick just so you can carry some cash! If you have more than $100k leftover, I would be looking at what Prems you can possibly upgrade to better picks.

Good luck :)
 

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Hi Rowsus

I know this question gets thrown around occasionally but was just looking for a bit of statistical thinking behind a structural decision.

In my midfield I have... Premium, Premium Premium, A, B, C, 200K Rookie, 200K Rookie. I am considering taking a slightly conservative approach with my starting midfielders and selecting players I personally believe have bigger roles to play in their own teams than their SC price suggest (i.e Van Berlo). SO I know some people will have issues with potentially too many 200K rookies - but that's ok if we can overlook that for the purposes of this discussion!

I have $970,000 and basically two options in my head.

A: Premium (Sloane or similar)
B: 200K rookie
C: Rookie (Jed Anderson / Heeney / whoever looks to be the best non-selected Rookie come round 1)

Or

A: Wells
B: another mid pricer (350K roughly)
C: 250K rookie (roughly)

Apart from the discussing about how many mid pricers you should have (esp in the midfield) and in the knowledge that I can select another KEEPER by taking option 1 (Sloane for example) how would I be best to evaluate the two methods in hypotheticals. I.E If I nail my mid pricers and they can average above 90 ppg (or even 100) vs saving a potential trade but having the lower base from which to fatten a cash cow.

Points v $$$ is an obvious comparison but Just wondering if we assign some points to players like these how would we evaluate this comparison.

Sorry for length of question - hope it is clear!
Hi JT,
I think the best way to assess this situation is assign to expectations to each selection. Keep in mind, my number 1 rule is, have reasonable expectations! When looking at Rookies, I think we should be looking at $200k worth of growth. Not many hit it or better it, but it's what you should hope for.

In the first option, you are probably looking at:
Sloane-like Prem 114
$200k Rookie 80
Anderson/Heeney 70
This produces 264 pts/week, and $400k in dollars. It will require 4 trades to get to 3 keepers (ie 1 up, 1 down for each)

The second option:
Wells - very subjective, some people will give 80 for this seasom, others 100, let's say 95.
$350k Midprice - very subjective again. Averaged 65 last season, maybe you're hoping for 90 this season.
$250k Rookie 90
This produces 275 pts/week, and $115k + $100k + $200k = $415k, and might require 5 trades, with luck, to get to 3 Keepers.

Now, under the figures I've used there, you gain 11 pts/week, and $15k using option 2 over the other scenario, but use 1 more trade to finalise your team. In my mind it makes it close to a line-ball, but option 1 just wins. I rate a trade early or mid season worth more than 120 points and $15k. You of course may have completely different expectations to mine, and I actually haven't used my expectations, just guesses at what you might be thinking. To use the extra trade, like in scenario 2, I think I'd want a 200 point advantage, or a 150 points and $50k. A general rule of thumb is, the more trades you lock yourself into, in your initial set up, the more likely things are to go wrong. If plan A and plan B look like a real coin toss, take the one involving less trades, everytime!
What you need to do to decide, is plug your expectations in, and come up with the bottom line scenario, similar to what I did. Wells is a real interesting one. Can score well against top and bottom teams alike, but can just throw in some real low scores, too. I guess if you go with him, and you think he can average 95 - 100 for the season, you jump off as soon as his price out measures his/your expectation. I wouldn't even wait for a high B/E with him. He might go hot, jump in price, and have a B/E of 60, and not meet it. He's a "take the profit and run while it's still there" proposition in my mind. Remember, if he throws in that 60, it mightn't cost you dollars, but the score will leave a sour taste in your mouth, and his new B/E will force you to trade the next week anyway!
 
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Rowsus

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Rowsus just a quick one, what backline structure are you currently leaning towards and who have you locked into your defence?

It is seriously doing my head in. I'm trying to stay away from mid pricers but I don't think I can avoid them. There are so many teams that have rookies in D5 and D6 and although they look better than mine, I just don't think they are feasible.
I actually don't have a structure I am leaning to right now. Like everyone else, I am waiting to see what Rookies reveal themselves in the coming weeks. The only constants I've had in my Def line since SC opened are Smith, Hibberd and Newnes. The rest will just have to wait until we have more info. Right now, having a Rookie at D5 does look a risk that is just too high.
 

Rowsus

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Agreed, my team has progressively looked worse as the depth in defence is filled out. Better to plan for the worst at this stage, easier to unwind to rookies (prior to round 1) rather than upgrade non playing rookies to premiums or mid price value "traps"!

Its crazy the difference it makes on look of the team and how you can compromise elsewhere.
Although it is still early days in the NAB Cup IMO the likely lack of def rookies has always been an issue. Even if one or two reliable ones appear I suspect many teams have structured with one or two def rookies on the field which means no or thin bench cover.

I have already started looking at def players in the 200-250k range that should have reasonable JS at least at the start of the season. This is a group I would normally never consider especially defence, but it might be better to pay more for an expensive but regular 65 than an 80, followed by a donut and some desperate trading to find a replacement. You need to do the maths to work out if it is worthwhile especially if it is costing you a premium somewhere else.

I think if you have gone multi rookies down back and you don't have a lot of cash in reserve to trade up and one gets dropped or injured it could get real ugly real quick.
If the Def Rookie situation does play out to be as ugly as some people are predicting, and I'm not on that boat yet, then there is an obvious parallel with the Ruck line.
In the Ruck line we are asking, do we eat a donut one week to save a trade? We might ask a similar question in the Def line. If we are facing a donut because our Rookies have fallen apart one week leaving a hole, do we trade, or eat a 60 point donut to gain more information the following week? Unless a solid option is staring us in the face, I say eat the donut, and gain a weeks info! Trading to avoid a 60 point donut, and bringing in a player who will just as likely disappear again the next week seems a crazy option. We are all complaining and planning about no coverage in the Rucks, why not just admit, the Def line might hold exactly the same problem, and we might have to eat a donut. Short term pain might get long term gain. We seem more accepting of the Ruck situation, than the Def situation, but to me they are nearly identical.
 
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Wells is a real interesting one. Can score well against top and bottom teams alike, but can just throw in some real low scores, too. I guess if you go with him, and you think he can average 95 - 100 for the season, you jump off as soon as his price out measures his/your expectation. I wouldn't even wait for a high B/E with him. He might go hot, jump in price, and have a B/E of 60, and not meet it. He's a "take the profit and run while it's still there" proposition in my mind. Remember, if he throws in that 60, it mightn't cost you dollars, but the score will leave a sour taste in your mouth, and his new B/E will force you to trade the next week anyway!
Hi Rowsus - Thanks a lot for that - it can be hard to quantify these types of choices but that has given me a base!

I agree that Wells is a take the profit and run scenario - hopefully 6-7 weeks of power and then quick upgrade. I am thinking the exact same with the $350K midpricer actually - and we all know that the ability to pick these mid-pricers that will fulfil our expectations can make or break the season.

I take your point re the saving trades - this needs to be a big consideration!

Im fairly happy w the rest of the team so Im going to play w the midfield and see what combo looks best!
 
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I don't mind paying overs for Robbie Gray but do you think he can maintain a 105-110 average this year or do you think clubs will target him?

Also my gut feeling would be to have Tom Mitchell, Swan, and Dusty but I am tossing up between Gray, Lids and Bennell and I don't know who to pick.
 
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If the Def Rookie situation does play out to be as ugly as some people are predicting, and I'm not on that boat yet, then there is an obvious parallel with the Ruck line.

In the Ruck line we are asking, do we eat a donut one week to save a trade? We might ask a similar question in the Def line. If we are facing a donut because our Rookies have fallen apart one week leaving a hole, do we trade, or eat a 60 point donut to gain more information the following week? Unless a solid option is staring us in the face, I say eat the donut, and gain a weeks info! Trading to avoid a 60 point donut, and bringing in a player who will just as likely disappear again the next week seems a crazy option. We are all complaining and planning about no coverage in the Rucks, why not just admit, the Def line might hold exactly the same problem, and we might have to eat a donut. Short term pain might get long term gain. We seem more accepting of the Ruck situation, than the Def situation, but to me they are nearly identical.
Hi Rowsus

I take that as a fair point. I would make the following observation however. Most coaches don't field rookies in the R1 or R2 spots. If you look at a common combo say Goldy and Berger neither of these guys are likely to be dropped by there real world coach unless they lose all form. If they are injured (Berger???) their profile means the injury is well reported in the press and people can make up there own mind to hold or trade out.

Rookies on the other hand get dropped for all kinds of reasons. Play one bad game-out. You don't fit our structure this week- out. Played a great game last week but caught bonking the coaches daughter- out. And sometimes they just seem to be out... And that is without injuries. The uncertainty makes holding on a bit risky for mine but you might not have choice if there is nothing to trade to. Hence my thought of avoiding that scenario altogether even if it costs you slightly more in $.
 

Rowsus

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I don't mind paying overs for Robbie Gray but do you think he can maintain a 105-110 average this year or do you think clubs will target him?

Also my gut feeling would be to have Tom Mitchell, Swan, and Dusty but I am tossing up between Gray, Lids and Bennell and I don't know who to pick.
I do think he will get targetted a little more than last season, but I think something around 105 is still very achievable for him. Even paying overs for him at that scoring rate isn't too bad of a mistake. We can wait for his price to drop, but if he starts with a bang, we might be waiting longer than we think/hope.
 

Rowsus

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Hi Rowsus

I take that as a fair point. I would make the following observation however. Most coaches don't field rookies in the R1 or R2 spots. If you look at a common combo say Goldy and Berger neither of these guys are likely to be dropped by there real world coach unless they lose all form. If they are injured (Berger???) their profile means the injury is well reported in the press and people can make up there own mind to hold or trade out.

Rookies on the other hand get dropped for all kinds of reasons. Play one bad game-out. You don't fit our structure this week- out. Played a great game last week but caught bonking the coaches daughter- out. And sometimes they just seem to be out... And that is without injuries. The uncertainty makes holding on a bit risky for mine but you might not have choice if there is nothing to trade to. Hence my thought of avoiding that scenario altogether even if it costs you slightly more in $.
Interesting. In the good old days, when we had 5 or 6 playing Rookie Rucks, not only was starting one of them at R2 a very accepted thing, it was actually a practice adopted by a number of very good, high ranking Coaches. The fact that we haven't had much of any playing Rookie Rucks in the last 2 seasons only exemplifies the similarities between the Def and Ruck lines this season.
 

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Interesting. In the good old days, when we had 5 or 6 playing Rookie Rucks, not only was starting one of them at R2 a very accepted thing, it was actually a practice adopted by a number of very good, high ranking Coaches. The fact that we haven't had much of any playing Rookie Rucks in the last 2 seasons only exemplifies the similarities between the Def and Ruck lines this season.
Pretty sure the dimmawits started with Blicavs at R2
 
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Rowsus, I have had a search through the thread and cant find anything on him. What are your thoughts on Ivan Maric? Finished the year off well does anything indicate he can get back to his 2012 SC form
 

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Rowsus, I have had a search through the thread and cant find anything on him. What are your thoughts on Ivan Maric? Finished the year off well does anything indicate he can get back to his 2012 SC form
Siwel, my greatest concern with Maric is, that I distinctly remember reading a newspaper article (around 12-24 months ago) where Hardwick said that Maric's injury was chronic, and would need management throughout his career. I have tried a few times to find this article again, without success. I can't even remember which injury it was he was referring to, but I remember thinking "that put's Maric on the never again list". There is no doubt, if you were confident he can stand up through the season, unaffected, he has the potential to be a top 3 Ruck. He definitely showed that at the end of last season. I just think I'd rather not start with someone who I'm pretty sure will miss games and have low scores because they play games injured.
 
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av1jme

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Siwel, my greatest concern with Maric is, that I distinctly remember reading a newspaper article (around 12-24 months ago) where Hardwick said that Maric's injury was chronic, and would need management throughout his career. I have tried a few times to find this article again, without success. I can't even remember which injury it was he was referring to, but I remember thinking "that put's Maric on the never again list". There is no doubt, if you were confident he can stand up through the season, unaffected, he has the potential to be a top 3 Ruck. He definitely showed that at the end of last season. I just think I'd rather not start with someone who I'm not pretty sure will miss games and have low scores because they play games injured.
this article
http://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/2013-07-04/maric-to-manage-groin-soreness
 
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Hi Rowsus, have you entertained the idea of Nick Haynes in the backline this year. His first NAB game was encouraging, looking forward to their next game despite being against Essendon.

Thanks
 

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Hi Rowsus, have you entertained the idea of Nick Haynes in the backline this year. His first NAB game was encouraging, looking forward to their next game despite being against Essendon.

Thanks
Hi Juzzo,
His first game was encouraging, and he has a little discount in his price, BUT...... his SC score in this first game is very hollow. He's not going to score at 8pts/disposal too often (no one is!), so we really need to see more, before we can be confident about picking him. He's under consideration, but not in my team right now.
 
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Hi Rowsus,

I'm not liking myself doing this but I find myself to be picking rich and vb in my team due to there not being the general abundance of mid rookies putting there hand up and screaming pick me. They are generally at m5-6 and sometimes 6-7. This is going to be one tuff season. With not much avaliable in def and ruck, a few in the mids but majority in the fwd line. Think a 3-5 fwd structure will be the go this year.
 
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