Opinion Questions For Rowsus

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Rowsus

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Hey Rowsus,

I have a ruck dilemma and need an opinion. Is it too risky to have both Tom Bellchambers and Jon Giles in the same SC team? I would use Bellchambers as a forward with Tom Read as a floating donut in the R3 position. Thoughts?

Thanks,
BomberSam.
Hey BS,
yes, I think it is too risky. Break up the possible outcomes:
Both turn out to be a bad or disappointing picks.
One is a good pick, the other bad or disappointing.
Both make dollars and points, but probably need upgrading anyway.
When you look at those 3 options, it seems the first one is head and shoulders above the other two as the most likely outcome. Remember the golden rule with Midpriced selections, they either have to make decent dollars and points, or make Keeper status, to be considered a good selection. Individually they look risky, together, it seems you are destined for one of them to be a bad pick, and where that problem compounds is, it is in your Ruck line. Anywhere else you downgrade your bad pick to a Rookie, and move on. You probably can't do that here, so it means finding cash to upgrade the mistake. That may not be easy to do, and wastes a perfectly good upgrade opportunity elsewhere.
Also, if one of them turns out to be a good pick, and the other one not so good, you are probably still behind on the deal. Unless the good pick goes completely nuts, and makes Keeper level, you generally need a better than 50% success rate on Midpricers to say the strategy worked. The cut off, depending on the level of of success, is more like you need a 60-70% strike rate to be happy with the decision.
Giles does not have a history of good scoring, and another Golden Rule is, mature age recruits don't have much room for improvement, and set their Expected Scoring Patterns in less games/seasons than other players. He had games last season that read: 44 HO's 11 poss 1 goal 73 SC, 42 HO's 7 poss 83 SC, 37 HO's 13 poss 1 goal 88 SC, most Rucks with those stats would be cruising up to and over 100, that means he is doing something wrong as his efforts aren't translating to points, and those were his best stats, not his average stats. It's hard to see where his improvement will come from, to suddenly start scoring 90+ as an average. If he scores less, from his starting price, he is a bad selection. 90-92 would only just put him in the winning side of the ledger.
My guesstimate of you being happy you started with a Giles/TBC combo would be somewhere around a 1-2% chance mark.
 
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Rowsus

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Rowsus do you have an opinion on starting either defenders or forwards that have a duel status in the midfield?

I have always planned by a rule that there are plenty of good mids so if a player has duel status (DEF/MID or FOR/MID) he is more valuable as a forward or DEF (making sure that I have a rookie MID with duel status to allow some flexibility) ...... but I am starting to rethink this.

I am seeing a few decent rookie forwards and am considering starting Delidio as a MID and planning that once a forward rookie is ready I will swap Delidio and upgrade the forward rookie to a MID.

It has been a long pre season and maybe I had it right in the first place (never play them as mids) and am now starting to over think!!
Mudflap, I think it's pretty simple, but I can understand that it can rattle your brain when you look at something too long. If you have one or two completed pairs for the DPP on the Fwd/Mid line already, and you are tossing up that last spot, and you like a Fwd Rookie over a Mid Rookie for that last spot, then swing Deledio up. Otherwise, keep him in down where he will/should end up, in your Fwd line. The bottom line is, end up with the Rookies you want/need, and use everybody who has DPP status to help you achieve the starting Keepers you want, too.
 

Rowsus

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Siwel, my greatest concern with Maric is, that I distinctly remember reading a newspaper article (around 12-24 months ago) where Hardwick said that Maric's injury was chronic, and would need management throughout his career. I have tried a few times to find this article again, without success. I can't even remember which injury it was he was referring to, but I remember thinking "that put's Maric on the never again list"......
Exactly the article. Thanks av1jme, I've looked for it so many times since! :)
Yep, pretty much the same article. Thanks for finding it, Man1 :)
 
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Thanks for the response Rowsus. I'll have to keep fiddling around with my rucks and forward eligible rucks to find something that might work better.
 
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Hey Rowsus,

Not sure if anyone has mentioned him yet but what's your thoughts on will minson thinking him at r2 behind goldy. He had a poor season last year. Can he return to 2013 numbers?
 
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Hey rowsus
What are your thoughts on Stevens, dangerfoeld, savage and Mumford, all strongly considered by me.
Stevens I predoct will average 105 for the season, but will aberage 108-112 early on due to great draw before falling off later making him a fantastic stepping stone to rockliff at round 12.
Dangerfield does have contract issues, but with walker joining the forward line, allowing an injury free danger to play in the midfield. Also, I do think Adelaide is on the rise and the upside is greater than the distraction of the contracts.
Savage had incredibly low TOG last year and scored multiple tons averaging huge numbers while playing the half back/mid role. Has a great draw and would be a certain lock if not for the recent injury.
Mumford I do think is fairly priced, sure his score will decrease due to the new system but he is also discounted due to the injury affected game last year resulting him being subbed out in the first quarter and getting a 40. Almost perfect draw, rising midfielders to help his hit out to advantage ratio. Good around the ground and even if he gets injured a downgrade or sideways trade can be easily done
 

Rowsus

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Hey Rowsus,

Not sure if anyone has mentioned him yet but what's your thoughts on will minson thinking him at r2 behind goldy. He had a poor season last year. Can he return to 2013 numbers?
Hey Btj,
Minson is a classic example of an exercise we should do with every "experienced" player we pick. Drop a season out, and see how his numbers look:

22/68, 12/59, 9/83, 21/95, 21/93

When you are talking about a 30 year old with 179 games, I would think that establishes him firmly in the 90-95 area. His 22/114 sticks out as a spike, and spikes are rarely repeated. If those that started him last season had conducted this same exercise, they might have thought twice about starting him, I hope!
 
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Hey Btj,
Minson is a Classic example of an exercise we should do with every "experienced" player we pick. Drop a season out, and see how his numbers look:

22/68, 12/59, 9/83, 21/95, 21/93

When you are talking about a 30 year old with 179 games, I would think that establishes him firmly in the 90-95 area. His 22/114 sticks out as a spike, and spikes are rarely repeated. If those that started him last season had conducted this same exercise, they might have thought twice about starting him, I hope!
Cheers thanks mate certainly helps me out. out the door he goes
 

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Hi there Rowsus, starting ruck options are causing me great angst also... currently I have Goldy at R1 (as starting with a durable proven scorer seems sensible). At R2 I am tossing up between Lycett or Z Smith (rather than Nic Nat as word from the West tells me he is lame with a back ailment). Is there any merit in one over the other? Smith seems to have a favourable early fixture whilst Lycett looks to be improving and could be switched to F6-7 as the season progresses. I also don't consider Leuey, TBC, Giles, Minson, Maric as valid starting options. Thoughts?
 

Rowsus

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Hey rowsus
What are your thoughts on Stevens, dangerfoeld, savage and Mumford, all strongly considered by me.
Stevens I predoct will average 105 for the season, but will aberage 108-112 early on due to great draw before falling off later making him a fantastic stepping stone to rockliff at round 12.
Dangerfield does have contract issues, but with walker joining the forward line, allowing an injury free danger to play in the midfield. Also, I do think Adelaide is on the rise and the upside is greater than the distraction of the contracts.
Savage had incredibly low TOG last year and scored multiple tons averaging huge numbers while playing the half back/mid role. Has a great draw and would be a certain lock if not for the recent injury.
Mumford I do think is fairly priced, sure his score will decrease due to the new system but he is also discounted due to the injury affected game last year resulting him being subbed out in the first quarter and getting a 40. Almost perfect draw, rising midfielders to help his hit out to advantage ratio. Good around the ground and even if he gets injured a downgrade or sideways trade can be easily done
Steven - I'm worried about a few things with Steven. He seems to lurch from one niggle to the next. Is he just one of those guys who has a body that doesn't stand up to the rigors of the high level of fitness and ability to absorb physical contact required in the AFL? Will he cope with the extra attention, now that it is pretty much just him and Joey that will draw a tag? Can he get enough ball at stoppages with St Kilda's lack of a good tap Ruck? St Kilda will be a pretty ordinary team this season, is he good enough to be a high scoring SC player in a bad team? All of these things have me worried about his game count, and his ability to bounce back to that 105-110 area. Keeping in mind, you can probably carry one 105 player through the season at M8, but you wouldn't want 2 of them in your starting line up at the business end. He's a chance to be a bargain 105 player, but to me, he just has too many question marks over him to take the risk. If he scores at 100 he will make you next to no cash. Keep in mind, when you have someone scoring just under Keeper level, they are near impossible to trade out on good terms! You can't trade them out on a good score, as you think "Here we go, he's turned the corner, and I will now get repaid for my faith". If you trade him out on a bad score you tend to lose any profit you made anyway, and lastly, it's just hard to fix someone scoring just below what you wanted anyway. There always seems to be another trade that seems pressing than the player just under performing.

Dangerfoeld - The little known German cousin of Patty D who snuck onto Adelaides list - sorry, couldn't resist. I'm not sure I draw a parallel between Tex being in the side, and Danger scoring better. He averaged 113 before Tex came back last season, and 102 after Tex came back last season. I actually think Tex has little to no effect as to whether Danger scores well or not. I'm worried about his contract talks, and the fact that he can throw in low scores early in a season. Given most of us will only start with 4 or 5 Mid Keepers, I want to start with ones I'm a bit more confident in. There are enough for us to choose from, if we are only picking 5, without taking one with a question mark over him.

Savage - He's already under a hamstring scare this pre-season, and has never played more than 18 games in a season. He was actually dropped from St Kilda's side mid-season last year, and when we are talking about an ordinary side, that's not a good sign! Bounced back with avengeance in his first 6 games back, after the leadership group gave him a decent bake. He averaged 105 in those 6 games, then was required for run with roles in the last 2, where he scored 46 and 48. Injury queries, needs a bake to get going, play run with roles pretty regularly, and has never averaged of 77 in 6 seasons. It's hard to take him with any confidence, given you'd want something close to 90 to keep him, and if scores lower he won't make much, if any, cash.

Mumford - Has a similar draw to start the season as last season, and could very easily start huge again. StK, Melb, Syd, GC are all in the teams that give up big scores to Rucks (Refer post #3279 in this thread). He is priced at career high opening Price (around $120k higher than the last 2 seasons!), and has only managed 19 games in a season twice. Given the fact we know he will miss games, he is priced so highly, and the uncertainty of how Rucks will score, most are avoiding him. He could certainly make a good POD, while he is there, but we just don't know how long that will be! Given the high price, and the fact he has more uncertainty about his ability to stand up, I too will avoid him, but I can understand those that take him.
 

Rowsus

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Hi there Rowsus, starting ruck options are causing me great angst also... currently I have Goldy at R1 (as starting with a durable proven scorer seems sensible). At R2 I am tossing up between Lycett or Z Smith (rather than Nic Nat as word from the West tells me he is lame with a back ailment). Is there any merit in one over the other? Smith seems to have a favourable early fixture whilst Lycett looks to be improving and could be switched to F6-7 as the season progresses. I also don't consider Leuey, TBC, Giles, Minson, Maric as valid starting options. Thoughts?
Hi there Burly,
I understand why you are excluding those at the bottom of your post. It is really hard to find Rucks we can be confident in at any price at the moment, but really hard as we move down the pricelist. If it comes down to Lycett vs Smith, Lycett seems to be a better pick, especially as you are basing this process on the assumption NicNat is compromised. As you suggested, you can swing him Fwd, and upgrade a Fwd to a Ruck as the season roles on. Smith does start with a good draw, but you are pretty much certain to trade him out, and that doesn't necessarily apply to Lycett. Given the choice of two, you go Lycett, unless you want a POD, or the potential benefits of Smith's early draw.
 
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g'day Rowsus,
rucks - have you seen anything (yet?) in the pre-season SC figures that might suggest what the impact of the revised SC scoring will be?
 

Rowsus

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g'day Rowsus,
rucks - have you seen anything (yet?) in the pre-season SC figures that might suggest what the impact of the revised SC scoring will be?
g'day chels,
Rucks are just about the most notoriously misleading thing in pre-season games. They don't go 100%, there are less stoppages, and less pressure applied in general, causing less "kicks down the line", which are generally a Rucks bread and butter for round the ground scoring. So to answer your question, nothing concrete, just a gut feeling that there is the suspected 5-10 point drop in there somewhere.
 
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Hi Rowsus,

A noob question, how many player in the same team should you select? Is there a set number of maximum 3 or 4? Saints do have a number of good option to select or even North. Cheers
 
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g'day chels,
Rucks are just about the most notoriously misleading thing in pre-season games. They don't go 100%, there are less stoppages, and less pressure applied in general, causing less "kicks down the line", which are generally a Rucks bread and butter for round the ground scoring. So to answer your question, nothing concrete, just a gut feeling that there is the suspected 5-10 point drop in there somewhere.
Many thanks Rowsus - I suspected as much, but - ever hopeful!

I cannot give enough praise for this thread, it is absolutely excellent. It is clarifying my thinking and when I finally construct a team I know it will owe a lot to you (and the other contributors to this thread). I hope it is sufficiently good to do justice to the advice.
 

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Thanks for your opinion Rowsus. The advice on this thread is second to none, thanks for the time and effort.

Goldy & Lycett for me at this stage, but I still have concerns that Lycett's points will be compromised by a fit` Nic Nat at some stage. However, if I'm moving into the post-bye period with Goldy & Jacobs, with Lycett at F6-7, I'd have to be pretty happy with that.
 
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Hey Rowsus,

A question about key position rookies. Hogan seems to be all the rage but I am not convinced. Should we be comparing him to what other high draft forwards Boyd (43), Cameron (62) and Patton (45) did in their first season? Not sure I see him averaging over 60 in a team that will struggle to have forward 50 entries. I have 3 forward rookies in my team (2 on bench) and currently rate them higher in terms of SC value than Hogan. Why is he the rookie everyone seems to want in their forward set up?
 
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Hi Rowsus,

Could a Ablett + 7 rookie mid (VB Newton Anderson Boekhurst Vandenberg Freeman Steele) work?
Would have Lambert and Saad on bench just incase of rookies not getting a game
Def can bring 2 players to mid if needed and fwds could bring 5 up if needed.

Cheers mate its very handy and insightful to have you hear to run all my ideas past.
Hope im not being to much of a pain asking so many questions lately.

Thanks
 
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Hey Rowsus,

A question about key position rookies. Hogan seems to be all the rage but I am not convinced. Should we be comparing him to what other high draft forwards Boyd (43), Cameron (62) and Patton (45) did in their first season? Not sure I see him averaging over 60 in a team that will struggle to have forward 50 entries. I have 3 forward rookies in my team (2 on bench) and currently rate them higher in terms of SC value than Hogan. Why is he the rookie everyone seems to want in their forward set up?
Dont want to jump in front of Rowsus but the main difference with Hogan is that this is his 3rd year on the list.

The first season he played a full year of VFL and I am fairly certain he won a B&F (stand to be corrected on that) with second year missed through injury (after he completed most of the pre season). So it is hard to compare him with other key forwards in first years. Probably better lining him up with 2nd or 3rd year key forwards
 
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