Discussion General Discussion
- Thread starter Impromptu
- Start date
- Joined
- 3 Jul 2017
- Messages
- 38,963
- Likes
- 126,636
- AFL Club
- Port Adelaide
WSOP Main Event Final Table starts tomorrow with play to continue until 6 players remain. Unsure if this will all be broadcasted on ESPN or not as the current running time listed in the guide is 2 hours.
Players involved and their chip count is listed in the provided link below:
http://www.wsop.com/tournaments/chipcounts/?aid=2&grid=1622&tid=17298&dayof=7658&rr=5
Players involved and their chip count is listed in the provided link below:
http://www.wsop.com/tournaments/chipcounts/?aid=2&grid=1622&tid=17298&dayof=7658&rr=5
- Joined
- 23 Mar 2012
- Messages
- 19,855
- Likes
- 929
- AFL Club
- Carlton
Sorry, ICM stands for ?
I just saw it as mental fatigue and pressure combined got to him. But given how long they play, not overly surprised. Better to happen at end of day than towards middle of day where he got many more hours to make more mistakes. Good nights rest will do him well.
I barracking for the non-professional at this point.
I just saw it as mental fatigue and pressure combined got to him. But given how long they play, not overly surprised. Better to happen at end of day than towards middle of day where he got many more hours to make more mistakes. Good nights rest will do him well.
I barracking for the non-professional at this point.
- Joined
- 23 Mar 2012
- Messages
- 19,855
- Likes
- 929
- AFL Club
- Carlton
Actual hand you can see here.
https://kayosports.com.au/event/sport!othersport/event-world-series-of-poker-final-9!73413
Goto 3 hours 29 minutes into the video stream replay if you have Kayo.
Having now seen it a second time , he starts the hand off with a raise, another guy with pocket 8's just makes a call and big blind that happens to have second highest chip count raises a lot more, but he can with such a big chip count I am surprised Livingston gives up his pocket Queens so easily. He must be thinking BB has pocket K's or Aces and if they play out to the river with various rounds of bets this could be his last serious hand and does not want to be ending 6th at this point. Seems like he just conceding that this battle deep into this day he just rather not do right now and make sure he back there the next day.
No way would want to fold pocket Queens at that point but can see some different perspective he taking of wanting to make it through another day as three others on table have similar and smaller chip counts to him. If he plays tight he may just jump in pay rise enough with others being knocked out in coming hands or early next day. As it was 6th player got knocked out about 30 minutes later so the context looks not as crazy looking a day later.
https://kayosports.com.au/event/sport!othersport/event-world-series-of-poker-final-9!73413
Goto 3 hours 29 minutes into the video stream replay if you have Kayo.
Having now seen it a second time , he starts the hand off with a raise, another guy with pocket 8's just makes a call and big blind that happens to have second highest chip count raises a lot more, but he can with such a big chip count I am surprised Livingston gives up his pocket Queens so easily. He must be thinking BB has pocket K's or Aces and if they play out to the river with various rounds of bets this could be his last serious hand and does not want to be ending 6th at this point. Seems like he just conceding that this battle deep into this day he just rather not do right now and make sure he back there the next day.
No way would want to fold pocket Queens at that point but can see some different perspective he taking of wanting to make it through another day as three others on table have similar and smaller chip counts to him. If he plays tight he may just jump in pay rise enough with others being knocked out in coming hands or early next day. As it was 6th player got knocked out about 30 minutes later so the context looks not as crazy looking a day later.
Last edited:
- Joined
- 17 Apr 2013
- Messages
- 1,436
- Likes
- 2,961
Yeah, just a couple of things.
I've been at work last few days, haven't seen the hand as yet, I'll watch it on PokerGo over the next week or so.
What I mean when I mentioned earlier in the thread about "ICM pressure" is basically the pressure to hold on until the next elimination so you can "ladder up". This pressure is extremely high when the jumps are in the millions of $. Good tournament players use this to their advantage, putting as much pressure as possible on shorter stacks who are just trying to survive. However, this is basically a known entity, so stuff like a big stack "squeezing from the big blind" in these situations should really be seen for what it is, ie just a big stack playing bully, so you should basically never fold QQ in the exact situation you described above.
Also, when a big stack squeezes, you should never put them on "AA or KK", their range there is super-wide, and has a lot of hands QQ has crushed. Overall, while there are times you can put players on exact holdings, the best way to approach poker is to think of a possible range of hands an opponent can have and play against that range. Which basically means I think just shipping QQ pre here, from what you described as the hand history, is the clear cut, slam dunk right action to go with here. In a game with a lot of shades of gray decisions in it this one is pretty much black and white and crystal clear. Calling and folding the flop is probably the worst thing you can do because you probably should have just folded pre in that case and just saved yourself those extra chips in the first place if you thought your hand was behind the squeezers.
I've been at work last few days, haven't seen the hand as yet, I'll watch it on PokerGo over the next week or so.
What I mean when I mentioned earlier in the thread about "ICM pressure" is basically the pressure to hold on until the next elimination so you can "ladder up". This pressure is extremely high when the jumps are in the millions of $. Good tournament players use this to their advantage, putting as much pressure as possible on shorter stacks who are just trying to survive. However, this is basically a known entity, so stuff like a big stack "squeezing from the big blind" in these situations should really be seen for what it is, ie just a big stack playing bully, so you should basically never fold QQ in the exact situation you described above.
Also, when a big stack squeezes, you should never put them on "AA or KK", their range there is super-wide, and has a lot of hands QQ has crushed. Overall, while there are times you can put players on exact holdings, the best way to approach poker is to think of a possible range of hands an opponent can have and play against that range. Which basically means I think just shipping QQ pre here, from what you described as the hand history, is the clear cut, slam dunk right action to go with here. In a game with a lot of shades of gray decisions in it this one is pretty much black and white and crystal clear. Calling and folding the flop is probably the worst thing you can do because you probably should have just folded pre in that case and just saved yourself those extra chips in the first place if you thought your hand was behind the squeezers.
- Joined
- 23 Mar 2012
- Messages
- 19,855
- Likes
- 929
- AFL Club
- Carlton
Maybe, after look at it the second time I stick with my impression he was thinking this was a fold he was willing to do in context of whole tournament and the cash prize for letting others bust out before him after this.
I have never played tournaments so can not know from experience but I actually like what he done when considered all the variables involved.
In a normal poker sit and go which is all I have ever played or social games never would make that fold. But having seen the tournament itself, I'd actually hope I would consider the move he did.
Btw, just watching today. He going well and has made the final 3 moments ago.
The guy that he folded to had a bad day and just finished 4th.
Livingston has impressed me and learned a few things just by watching and thinking about his moves.
- Joined
- 3 Jul 2017
- Messages
- 38,963
- Likes
- 126,636
- AFL Club
- Port Adelaide
end of play today
#PLAYERAMOUNT
1
Hossein Ensan 326,800,000
-
2
Alex Livingston 120,400,000
-
3
Dario Sammartino 67,600,000
-
4
Garry Gates 0
-29,200,000
5
Kevin Maahs 0
-30,300,000
#PLAYERAMOUNT
1
-
2
-
3
-
4
-29,200,000
5
-30,300,000
Will be very interesting to see how long it takes to crown the champion as last year it took roughly 10 and a half hours and 199 hands of heads up (2 players) which is a WSOP Main Event Final Table record.
Quake was about 80km from us but all of nusa Dua felt it. We were having breakfast, and felt some rumbling, thought it was a plane to start with, then it got stronger, everything was moving., But not like things falling of shelves or anything, everyone got up and ran outside, kids crying etc, then a huge bang or explosion type noise. I thought a plane had crashed on our motel. It was pretty crazy for a while. When everything settled down, I went back to breakfast and finished my waffles
- Joined
- 22 Jan 2013
- Messages
- 3,858
- Likes
- 1,652
- AFL Club
- Collingwood