Position Ruck Discussion

[Bomber18]

Who would have thought in the first 4 months of summer that the rucks would end coming to a Gawn Vs Naismith camp divide??!!!!!

I can see the pros and cons to both sides. I'm in the Gawn camp, but at least this alternative strategy has arrived, would probably have been boring with we all ended up with the Gawndy combo!

To be honest, it’s only the hard core SCers who are considering Naismith, drawing on the successes of Witts and Lycett R2 in the past.

Naismith currently only has 3% ownership compared to NN 13.2%, Jacobs 15.5%, Gawn 26%. The masses that are interested in a Gawn alternative are mainly considering NN or Jacobs it seems.

I have a feeling Witts R2 was a pod in the end as well with less than 10% ownership.

 

[Kidult]

Agree, but cash generation differs substantially between a $120k rookie to a $250k rookie like Naismith so it’s apples and oranges again.

So for those locking in Grundy & Gawn , hypothetical what happens if Marshall or ROB lift their game to their levels this season or English reaches it 1 season quicker than anticipated.

The option of getting Marshall bye free in Round 12 - > could be very attractive

or even lycett the way he ended 2019

 

[Kidult]

No what I’m saying is the rate of cash generation changes, Naismith is required to a average substantially more to build on the cash already invested in his starting price.

Just for LOLS :
Then the rookie gets dropped 2nd game or injury and stuck with b4 price rise =) and Naismith goes on his mary way .

 

[randomcliche]

Has Goldstein always performed better in the latter half of the season or just the last 2 years? So such having such a large variance, anyone have an explanation for this?

IIRC in his previous premo years there was no sig variation. The issue I think was he took a little time to warm back up to being the main ruck beast after dealing with his mental health (happy to be corrected...).

FWIW I started him last year but pulled the trigger when he wasn't averaging 110+ after a few rounds for ROB. I thought there was an outsidee chance of price equalisatiin between the two by the byes but I certainly didn't pick him to be the #2 ruck for H2 last year. I now think he is a viable Gawn alternative and slightly underpriced due to his warm up period in 2019.

PS I always regularly manage to cop Kreuzer Gawn whoever LTIs in the ruck line. I have this awful feeling that Nic Nat will be Naismith in round 3 this year....

I think the following are Gawn alternatives worth doing and they all fall at different price points.
Goldy
NN
Naismith
Sauce
Lycett (perhaps)
Any number of RF RD 123k rookies if named (and you have a big set)

I don't think ROB or Marshall are viable at this point because they aren't cheap enough or haven't shown they can go 130 avg..

TLDR; there are heaps of R2 options at various price points. Pick the rest of your team and then the ruck that fits (turning many SC rules on its head in the process).

 

[Zagbag]

Just for clarity, my plea was for any coaches not running BOTH Grundy & Gawn…

I have to come clean... last night I took my first look at a Jacobs / Naismith ruck combo.

It was like a taste of that sweet forbidden fruit. All those great memories I’ve had of starting Sandilands, Witts, Blicavs, Nankervis as a starting ruck... Robbie Warnock as R3 at $102k...

But then I remembered last year, and it all came crashing down. I don’t think I can put myself through that pain again.

 

[Professor]

imo by removing Gawn, you sacrifice a very good captain choice. Whichever way you go with the cash saved, do you split the cash to upgrade to 2 midpricers or upgrade to a full premium elsewhere. Probably no right or wrong.

Edit

I had an expensive ruck/forward cover in the Hoff last year, we all know that didn't pan out well. When I needed him for coverage, he was well gone out of my team. Good luck to those taking the risk.

 

[jaca]

I started neither G or G last year. I think it’s almost FOMO of last year forcing my hand this year.

I might just go with Naismith to be a bit different. I’m a bit time poor at the moment, so that is playing into my decision making.

 

[Spots]

Without having looked into the answer for this question.... lets say you have a non playing R/F or D/f you can link with either Williams or Ceglar, how much opportunity is there to use loopholing alongside a Naismith selection? maybe have Naismith at R3, see how he scores and then shift the donut around... just spitballing, its probably far to complicated but could alleviate some issues in those first 12 rounds.

 

[aps1]

Without having looked into the answer for this question.... lets say you have a non playing R/F or D/f you can link with either Williams or Ceglar, how much opportunity is there to use loopholing alongside a Naismith selection? maybe have Naismith at R3, see how he scores and then shift the donut around... just spitballing, its probably far to complicated but could alleviate some issues in those first 12 rounds.

If running with Naismith, then I think you just have to be confident he scores well enough, otherwise why have you selected him? Also if you do swing a Ceglar into the ruck, how confident are you that a rookie will outscore what Naismith scored?

 

[Spots]

If running with Naismith, then I think you just have to be confident he scores well enough, otherwise why have you selected him? Also if you do swing a Ceglar into the ruck, how confident are you that a rookie will outscore what Naismith scored?

Good points, the Naismith selection would be more a value pick combined with a sprinkling of cash generation due to the lack of rookies... but you are on the money about the forward rookie score that comes in...

 

[frosty1]

Question for the Naismith R2 players. Any thought to leaving out Grundy over Gawn? Can net you some more cash, and potential that he will revert more than Gawn if he has a slow start? Would CFC selecting Cameron for Rd 1 bring this into your consciousness?

 

[Slacker]

Good points, the Naismith selection would be more a value pick combined with a sprinkling of cash generation due to the lack of rookies... but you are on the money about the forward rookie score that comes in...

Just between you and me, the secret here is F7 Curtis Taylor, R3 Comben and F6 Ceglar. I've got Curtis pencilled in for 73+ every week.

I had an expensive ruck/forward cover in the Hoff last year, we all know that didn't pan out well. When I needed him for coverage, he was well gone out of my team. Good luck to those taking the risk.

My single biggest regret from last season was The Hoff...week after week he just sapped any enjoyment out of SC for me. I see (hope) that Ceglar is a different kind of player and role to what Hoff had and is at least starting a lot cheaper than Hoff did last year.

 

[Slacker]

Question for the Naismith R2 players. Any thought to leaving out Grundy over Gawn? Can net you some more cash, and potential that he will revert more than Gawn if he has a slow start? Would CFC selecting Cameron for Rd 1 bring this into your consciousness?

The reverse and invert POD ruck move,cool, now that's some lateral thinking

 

[dlanod]

Everything points to picking Gawn being the wrong choice but I just can’t seem to wrap my head around it.

I agree and had NN locked in all the year, but ultimately bit the bullet and went Gawn.

• If Gawn is the wrong decision, it's one trade to fix. You get to pick the form ruck and pocket some cash as an added bonus.
• If NN (or Naismith or Comben or...) is the wrong decision, it's two trades to fix because you're not saving $300k-$500k just for this scenario as that defeats the point of having the cheaper ruck.

This is simply not true and what has been hard to convince people of, he was back running first week of February

I'm wondering what peoples thoughts would be if Gawn hadn't of been injured and whether people are self justifying the selection of Naismith putting it down to Gawn's amputated leg this pre-season.

I can't believe Melbourne are letting Gawn play without giving him time to regrow his three limbs and two toes.

 

[Slacker]

I agree and had NN locked in all the year, but ultimately bit the bullet and went Gawn.

• If Gawn is the wrong decision, it's one trade to fix. You get to pick the form ruck and pocket some cash as an added bonus.
• If NN (or Naismith or Comben or...) is the wrong decision, it's two trades to fix because you're not saving $300k-$500k just for this scenario as that defeats the point of having the cheaper ruck.
• I can't believe Melbourne are letting Gawn play without giving him time to regrow his three limbs and two toes.

What you say is very sage and good solid advice...nonetheless, despite his recent apparent resilience, Gawn has a pretty bad history of injury vulnerability, is this returning to haunt him now as he's getting older, hopefully not.
At least price changes don't occur until the 3rd round so as you say, just the one trade out of any early trouble if needed.

 

[donnybuang]

Yeah I've got a 1 Feb 'full training' rule. I've had Nic Nat locked in for a while. All this doomsday talk has me considering ceglarge to provide cover.... but I'll look to the basement rucks first.

I'm on NN currently. His leap is phenomenal and with his team of midfielders at his feet, his HOTA should be insane.

 

[Kidult]

What you say is very sage and good solid advice...nonetheless, despite his recent apparent resilience, Gawn has a pretty bad history of injury vulnerability, is this returning to haunt him now as he's getting older, hopefully not.
At least price changes don't occur until the 3rd round so as you say, just the one trade out of any early trouble if needed.

It will b an interesting battle against Naitanui with a bit of unknown only played him once ever in H&A Season could make his BE high and more of a value target. Gonna be some good viewing if Naitanui is leaping over him if Gawn's knee restricts him at all.

 

[Beijing_Sting]

I have been sucked in by this article previously. Went with Ziebell's pick Marly Williams I think. However, Gawn seems to understand SC more than other players. He is sort of hinting not to pick him. Was it against WC that he received that infamous spray while prostrated in the goal square after a collision with a player or was it GWS? He has WC first week - doesn't he.

Stef Martin is cheaper at 500. Old, but reliable compared to NicNat. If I use Stef, I can fit in all a lot of the overpriced rookies without compromising my bye or Gun structure. Hmmmm. AM I about to be sucked in by this article again? I must say, it was much better written this time.

SHOULD SUPERCOACH PLAYERS PICK YOU?
SCOTT PENDLEBURY (Collingwood): No (laughs) because then I’ll get a lot less questions on social media about score more points or whatever. So don’t pick me.

DYSON HEPPELL (Essendon): Absolutely! Maybe not quite yet because I’ll miss the early part of the year but I’ll be back in there cracking in and will hit the ground running.

MAX GAWN (Melbourne): Jury is out this year I think. I don’t know, I’m a big Grundy fan and there’s some other very good rucks in (Rowan) Marshall, (Todd) Goldstein, Riley O’Brien and Stef Martin – I’m a big Stef Martin man. Who knows.

DAVID SWALLOW (Gold Coast): I’d say yes (laughs) but I don’t know what my scoring prowess is like. I’m probably cheap.

STEPHEN CONIGLIO (GWS): You should. Get him in there. He’ll help your final score (laughs).

 

[Kidult]

I'm on NN currently. His leap is phenomenal and with his team of midfielders at his feet, his HOTA should be insane.

I have been sucked in by this article previously. Went with Ziebell's pick Marly Williams I think. However, Gawn seems to understand SC more than other players. He is sort of hinting not to pick him. Was it against WC that he received that infamous spray while prostrated in the goal square after a collision with a player or was it GWS? He has WC first week - doesn't he.

Stef Martin is cheaper at 500. Old, but reliable compared to NicNat. If I use Stef, I can fit in all a lot of the overpriced rookies without compromising my bye or Gun structure. Hmmmm. AM I about to be sucked in by this article again? I must say, it was much better written this time.

SHOULD SUPERCOACH PLAYERS PICK YOU?
SCOTT PENDLEBURY (Collingwood): No (laughs) because then I’ll get a lot less questions on social media about score more points or whatever. So don’t pick me.

DYSON HEPPELL (Essendon): Absolutely! Maybe not quite yet because I’ll miss the early part of the year but I’ll be back in there cracking in and will hit the ground running.

MAX GAWN (Melbourne): Jury is out this year I think. I don’t know, I’m a big Grundy fan and there’s some other very good rucks in (Rowan) Marshall, (Todd) Goldstein, Riley O’Brien and Stef Martin – I’m a big Stef Martin man. Who knows.

DAVID SWALLOW (Gold Coast): I’d say yes (laughs) but I don’t know what my scoring prowess is like. I’m probably cheap.

STEPHEN CONIGLIO (GWS): You should. Get him in there. He’ll help your final score (laughs).

I had a laugh at Gawn's comments can never take him seriously and Gawn woulda been learning off Martin when he was at the Dees

 

[NT.Thunder]

I'm on NN currently. His leap is phenomenal and with his team of midfielders at his feet, his HOTA should be insane.

It'll need to be as it looks like he'll only ever play 40% tog