Discussion 2021 Round 2: Teams & In Game Discussion

[Zoku Pops]

Neale - had debated whether he may get extra attention this year post a Brownlow. Hard O'Connor tag, Brisbane not prepared for it, with the other players giving frees away trying to support him and no umpire free kicks as it was at the Cattery.

Has that Bont feeling to him last year, where we thought Bont had lost his mojo, just turned out he played close to 7 of the hard tag sides at the start of the season, then had it easier after that. Bont didn't fall that much as in that mix, Swans decided to tag Macrae and Bont scored 166, keeping his price solid.

Has Pies (113), Bulldogs (167), Essendon (157) and Carlton (142) where he did ok on last year, none appear to be tagging. Except the Pies game 1, Bont also did ok against those teams last year.

Last quarter showed fitness doesn't look to be too bad. Some comments about ineffective possession look wrong, some of the hardest ground ball gets in the game by Neale were during that period.

He is going to lose money, just a question of if he gave you 120 for next 4 games yet falls $150k, would you trade him.

With Rowell, Danger, soft output from Clark, Daniher and Dow (all well owned), Cripps, soft rookies, do you trade Neale Gawn Grundy types (all talked about this week) when they could be just a quarter away from turning it around?

The none appear to be tagging part is what concerns me as I'd definitely put Geelong of recent times in that category but they hard tagged Lachie.

As a non-Neale owner of the last 2 years, it's staggered me that teams haven't put attention into him as he seems like the kind of player that can be shut down, ie. can't go and be effective forward like Bont. Tonight might be the blueprint.

Not sure what the answer is and super tough spot to be in. I'll likely cut my losses and trade as it gives me the funds to fix another spot on my field but if your team was in good shape it's a tougher call.

 

[Juzzo]

Do we need to introduce a coaches challenge or the ability to review an umpiring decision in the last minute of the game?

I hate seeing games decided like that, I think it's absolutely crucial the right call gets made there even if we have to slow down the game for it to happen.

we just need competent, non-cowardly umpires.

 

[7/11]

5/558 Grundy VC.

Well that game was utterly depressing. Neale, Zorko (danger replacement) and Clark from that one not providing enough. Looks like I’ll be heavily reliant on the rookies again this week.

 

[mike89]

Whats with carlton kicking goals when ball is out of the boundry .
View attachment 27745

I did wonder at the time too, but the whole ball has to be over the whole line and there's enough doubt from that angle that that is even the case. Plus as others mentioned it was a quick rebound play and the boundary umpire is nowhere to be seen.

 

[Maso]

Weekend is only goung to get better right ??

 

[BarginHunter]

Got a quicl question, why is everyone in my h2h got Dusty as C? Is he good against whoever hes versing or do my opponents believe he'll do what he did last week?

 

[Maso]

Projected looks ok until you see Gulden and Flynn having 139 & 140 which very unlikely

 

[Maso]

Got a quicl question, why is everyone in my h2h got Dusty as C? Is he good against whoever hes versing or do my opponents believe he'll do what he did last week?

Could be they don’t trust thier other choices available and he is in decent form

 

[N29]

we just need competent, non-cowardly umpires.

It's a sad state of affairs that the evidence suggests that will just never happen. They are still part time employees ***.

 

[Zimmer]

we just need competent, non-cowardly umpires.

In many ways the AFL and rules committee make umpiring more difficult, and almost impossible for consistency- and then hide behind the criticism of umpires when it’s really toward them (rules committee etc.) that the criticism is, or should be targeted.

Last night’s umpiring in general seemed to have a bit of this element. Every game does these days. More than that though, was the straight forward errors or home town bias - and that final non-decision was and has always been the most textbook example of holding the ball you’ll see and would be paid in any era of the game. It was simple incompetent or corrupted umpiring. It was also representative of the waning integrity of the game in general IMO.

 

[Herbie66]

Even with the BIG O injury.?

Haven't seen the latest injury reports to see the extent of Big O's injury.

Fullarton certainly didn't look anything inspiring last night.

Not sure how far McStay is.

Wouldn't be surprised if they played 4 mids at the CBA and just conceded the ruck to Grundy , Berry could possibly play the "Dunkley" role and just shark Grundy's HO around the game.

 

[GrainFedBeef]

The none appear to be tagging part is what concerns me as I'd definitely put Geelong of recent times in that category but they hard tagged Lachie.

As a non-Neale owner of the last 2 years, it's staggered me that teams haven't put attention into him as he seems like the kind of player that can be shut down, ie. can't go and be effective forward like Bont. Tonight might be the blueprint.

Not sure what the answer is and super tough spot to be in. I'll likely cut my losses and trade as it gives me the funds to fix another spot on my field but if your team was in good shape it's a tougher call.

Geelong tagged Rowell last year and were the 5th hardest team for keeping key midfielders down 2020.

They kept Macrae (96) Petracca (89) Steele (86) Mitchell (95) to low scores.

Only Saints (Seb Ross I think post Steele) Freo (serong) North and GWS (MDB) were heavier with records of 5-6 restrictions.

 

[Herbie66]

/popcorn and waits for @Herbie66 to explain the 'loophole' to Jay.

hahaha

seems a waste of time trying to explain something to people that actually works , then another 4-5 people confirm that it still works , yet people still have doubts and question what you (I) post.

might be a lot easier just to sit back and become a observer from now on

 

[GrainFedBeef]

hahaha

seems a waste of time trying to explain something to people that actually works , then another 4-5 people confirm that it still works , yet people still have doubts and question what you (I) post.

might be a lot easier just to sit back and become a observer from now on

True value add from you and other forum commentators. Makes sense and awesome to know. Think some get confused with the cannot use reverse trade button with a constant flowing change prior to those players being locked.

 

[Ironhawk]

I did wonder at the time too, but the whole ball has to be over the whole line and there's enough doubt from that angle that that is even the case. Plus as others mentioned it was a quick rebound play and the boundary umpire is nowhere to be seen.

Apparently just the tip of the ball needs to be over the goal line though to score a goal according to BT who was going on about that when Hawkins had a shot land near the goal line and bounce back into play. Good to see that the commentators don't seem to even understand the basic rules.

 

[Juzzo]

In many ways the AFL and rules committee make umpiring more difficult, and almost impossible for consistency- and then hide behind the criticism of umpires when it’s really them (rules committee etc.) that the criticism is, or should be targeted.

Last night’s umpiring in general seemed to have a bit of this element. Every game does these days. More than that though, was the straight forward errors or home town bias - and that final non-decision was and and has always been the most textbook example of holding the ball you’ll see and would be paid in any era of the game. It was simple incompetent or corrupted umpiring. It was also representative of the waning integrity of the game in general IMO.

If umpires called the game how the spectators see it, there wouldn't be too many problems imo. Always going to be those 50/50 calls. But blatant ones have to be called.

 

[Peter56]

There were bad decisions for the Lions all game.

Also some very inaccurate kicking for goal. If they had kicked straighter the poor umpiring would not have mattered.

 

[Zimmer]

True value add from you and other forum commentators. Makes sense and awesome to know. Think some get confused with the cannot use reverse trade button with a constant flowing change prior to those players being locked.

Reckon it’s because it seems such an oversight. I understand that you were able to do it in cricket SC or whatever, which I don’t play, so it’s just surprising with no prior knowledge of the concept. It’s a tricky thing to get your head around initially. But that’s part of what makes this site so good - the shared knowledge.

 

[mike89]

If umpires called the game how the spectators see it, there wouldn't be too many problems imo. Always going to be those 50/50 calls. But blatant ones have to be called.

I actually think one of the old pre-season tweaks had merit here - allowing boundary umpires to make certain decisions. Since the field umpire is often inside the contest, and the cameras (and live crowd) necessarily see the game from outside the contest, the fans often see things that are in field umpires' blind spots. Boundary umpires would have a better chance of seeing something happening that appears obvious from the fan's perspective - think a high tackle that the field umpire is on the opposite side of - as it stands the only free kick they can give is for a centre square infringement.

None of that would have corrected the Blicavs decision, of course...

 

[Herbie66]

Sorry this is long, but hopefully it clarifies the trade loophole discussion...

In response to all the discussion about using a second trade to undo a first trade or to ontrade a player who you traded in earlier in the round...

It seems fairly clear that the software must be written so that when a trade is completed the "new" team is compared to the team as it existed in the prior round and the number of trades still available is calculated based on the number of different players.

So - trade player A to player B and then, before player A has played, trade player B back to player A. How many differences are there between the team after these two trades and the team as it existed in the prior round? Zero - hence the software concludes that no trades have been completed (even though you have performed 2 trades!).

Or - trade player A to player B and then trade player B to player C - ie effectively player A has been changed to player C and no other players have changed. How many difference are there between the team after these two trades and the team as it existed in the prior round? One (player A is now player C) - hence the software concludes that only 1 trade has been completed (even though you have performed 2 trades) - Note: It doesn't matter whether player A has played or not when you ontrade player B to player C - that will not affect the glitch at all.

In theory, the software could be corrected at any time, but that's perhaps unlikely since changing software has a nasty way of introducing other little glitches and I doubt they would want to risk that while the game is ongoing. But it's a risk that anyone trying to do this needs to accept.

For those going for the prize, the question is... does this violate the rules and could doing it disqualify you if you win?

The language in the terms and conditions is interesting. It doesn't actually say that you can only make two trades per round. It says that you can trade up to a maximum of 2 players... ie replace two players with new players. It says that you can make one or two trades at once ie at the same time. But notably it does not say how may trades overall per round you are limited to in order to replace the two players that you are allowed to replace. It says you cannot reverse trades (ie hit the reverse trade button) after a round has started but it does not say you cannot do an additional trade to undo an earlier trade. All in all, there is really nothing there that forbids the above loophole. We are still limited to trading two players per round. We are still limited to trading only 1 or 2 players at any one time. We are still not using the reverse trade button after the round has started. But I have to admit I haven't read all the fine print!

You get my vote as best post of the decade 😀