Opinion Questions For Rowsus

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
20 Jan 2013
Messages
412
Likes
142
AFL Club
Brisbane
Rowsus

Mark Thompson on Chappy


"Chappy hasn't lost anything in his ability to play," Thompson said.

"So far at training he has done nearly every session.

"He is a high-standard, quality trainer.

"But the key thing for him, as it is for anyone who gets older, is if his body is going to be able to do it over the duration of a season.

"I think if we manage him, it will."

that is my concern with Chappy him getting "managed" and getting or starting with the green vest or even worse getting rested. Did you intend to upgrade him or try and stick fat with him throughout the year?
 
Joined
8 Mar 2012
Messages
638
Likes
1,587
AFL Club
Collingwood
Rowsus,

With Ablett and Pendles both sharing the Round 8 bye who do you think will have the highest score in round 8.

I have used your very useful RAMP to get my prediction but I would like to know your opinion.
 
Joined
3 Feb 2014
Messages
3,702
Likes
5,297
AFL Club
West Coast
Rowsus,

I'm considering going in with 3 midfield rookies this year, however when I show my team, people suggest trading out a Midfield Premium for a rookie and bringing an extra Forward premium in instead because the best cash cows are found in the middle.

Is this true?

My current MID/FWD price structure.

MID: 3 Super Premiums (600k+), 3 Premiums (500-599k), 1 Midpricer (200-499k) 3 Rookies
FWD: 1 Super Premium, 3 Midpricers (2 of which are 440k+), 4 Rookies.

Should I swap one of my three midfield premiums for a forward premium/high priced midpricer?

Link to my RMT posthttp://www.supercoachscores.com/threads/1074-Rate-My-Team/page14?p=74361&viewfull=1#post74361
 
Joined
27 Jan 2014
Messages
6,769
Likes
14,766
AFL Club
Fremantle
I had a look at last years draw and the captains loophole versus a fixed captain (Ablett) and I reckon it was worth 360 points. I used the captains average as the yes or no trigger to use the vice captain.
I just had a look at 2012 and the benefit of the Captains loophole would have been 364 points. That year I chose Ablett and Swan as the 2 main captains and in their absence chose Pendlebury and Watson. I looked at the draw before I chose my Captain and Vice Captain to try and keep the experiment more valid rather than looking at the scores first and it is also assuming that you have a doughnut you can use each week so the final total is more potential rather than actual. There were 6 positive weeks and 3 negative weeks. Ablett had a monster year which would make it hard to question what he might score as the second choice. What I did notice in 2012 and 2013 is that the loophole helps you avoid an absolute shocker. Last year there was 1 week with +186 and the year before there was 1 week with a +192.
 

Rowsus

Statistician
Joined
19 Mar 2012
Messages
29,134
Likes
64,899
AFL Club
Melbourne
So Rowsus, just wondering if you would be able to provide a statistical analysis and report on Sloane? (Saw your reply and subtle suggestion in the midfield thread!). Cheers!
Hi Bobbie,
I usually try and answer questions in the same order they came in. As I 'm planning a more elaborate answer for you, I will answer some of the shorter ones first, if that's ok. I should have something up for you in within the next 24 - 30 hours.
 
Joined
27 Feb 2013
Messages
3,929
Likes
223
AFL Club
Collingwood
Hey rowsus! Where can I find the most profitable rookies this year(not necessarily high scoring)?
Thanks
 

Rowsus

Statistician
Joined
19 Mar 2012
Messages
29,134
Likes
64,899
AFL Club
Melbourne
Rowsus

Mark Thompson on Chappy


"Chappy hasn't lost anything in his ability to play," Thompson said.

"So far at training he has done nearly every session.

"He is a high-standard, quality trainer.

"But the key thing for him, as it is for anyone who gets older, is if his body is going to be able to do it over the duration of a season.

"I think if we manage him, it will."

that is my concern with Chappy him getting "managed" and getting or starting with the green vest or even worse getting rested. Did you intend to upgrade him or try and stick fat with him throughout the year?
Hi siwel,
managing takes many forms, not just vesting or resting. The most popular form of managing veterans like Chappy is to ease their training workload once the season starts. Get them fit, then just keep them ticking over. At this stage I'm planning to keep him through the season. Let's assume he misses 3 games, and cops 3 vests through the season. If he can average high 90's to 100 for the games he plays, which history says he can, he gets a PIT70 score of around 2100. If you compare that to someone who you hope will play every game, they need to score at 95.5 to be of more value than him. How many Forwards do you have marked down to score at that level, and how much more than Chappy do they cost? Unless something happens in the next few weeks, he's a lock for me. I agree with Dimma's sentiments, too. I'm not picking anyone in my team over $400k, that I expect to trade out during the season.
 

Rowsus

Statistician
Joined
19 Mar 2012
Messages
29,134
Likes
64,899
AFL Club
Melbourne
Rowsus,

With Ablett and Pendles both sharing the Round 8 bye who do you think will have the highest score in round 8.

I have used your very useful RAMP to get my prediction but I would like to know your opinion.
On the figures I have in my RAMP, it will be a WC player. It says it will be Masten, followed by Scooter or Shuey. Outside of WC players, then next two highest predictions for round 8 are Liberatore and Lobbe!
 

Rowsus

Statistician
Joined
19 Mar 2012
Messages
29,134
Likes
64,899
AFL Club
Melbourne
Rowsus,

I'm considering going in with 3 midfield rookies this year, however when I show my team, people suggest trading out a Midfield Premium for a rookie and bringing an extra Forward premium in instead because the best cash cows are found in the middle.

Is this true?

My current MID/FWD price structure.

MID: 3 Super Premiums (600k+), 3 Premiums (500-599k), 1 Midpricer (200-499k) 3 Rookies
FWD: 1 Super Premium, 3 Midpricers (2 of which are 440k+), 4 Rookies.

Should I swap one of my three midfield premiums for a forward premium/high priced midpricer?

Link to my RMT posthttp://www.supercoachscores.com/threads/1074-Rate-My-Team/page14?p=74361&viewfull=1#post74361
Hey rowsus! Where can I find the most profitable rookies this year(not necessarily high scoring)?
Thanks
I try not to get too involved in Rookie discussions prior to the NAB. The bottom line is, we are all guessing until we see something that approaches "real" match conditions. Intra-clubs are not much help at all!
Eagling, on what we know historically, it would seem to be a very risky strategy. You are relying on too many Fwd and Def Rookies to raise cash for you. It seems doubtful you can do it. The other risk is, they not only need to make money, but you need them to have good JS, as you will be starting more than 2 on the ground. Once again, historically, that is pretty risky in the Fwd and Def lines, unless you overload your side with Midpricers, which brings it own problems!
Prochard, I am sorry. I really have no opinion on that yet, and would only be guessing, like everyone else! :)
 

Krieks

Rising Star Winner
Joined
28 Jun 2013
Messages
321
Likes
13
AFL Club
Essendon
Hi Bobbie,
I usually try and answer questions in the same order they came in. As I 'm planning a more elaborate answer for you, I will answer some of the shorter ones first, if that's ok. I should have something up for you in within the next 24 - 30 hours.
I had a crack at my thoughts on Sloane in the midfields discussion thread but can't wait to see what you have to say Rowsus!
 

Rowsus

Statistician
Joined
19 Mar 2012
Messages
29,134
Likes
64,899
AFL Club
Melbourne
I just had a look at 2012 and the benefit of the Captains loophole would have been 364 points. That year I chose Ablett and Swan as the 2 main captains and in their absence chose Pendlebury and Watson. I looked at the draw before I chose my Captain and Vice Captain to try and keep the experiment more valid rather than looking at the scores first and it is also assuming that you have a doughnut you can use each week so the final total is more potential rather than actual. There were 6 positive weeks and 3 negative weeks. Ablett had a monster year which would make it hard to question what he might score as the second choice. What I did notice in 2012 and 2013 is that the loophole helps you avoid an absolute shocker. Last year there was 1 week with +186 and the year before there was 1 week with a +192.
Hi freowho,
I really think you have added something to our site in your short time here. I hope you become a regular, and keep posting. We can never have enough people posting well thought out, and well researched posts! Good job, I tried to rep you, but have to share the love before I can do that again. :)
 

tracygrims

250 Games Club
Joined
17 Apr 2013
Messages
1,236
Likes
62
AFL Club
Richmond
Dear Rowsus,

Do you think there is a difference between selecting midpricers that fall into the categories returning injured-premiums and prospecitve upp-and-comers?
Based on last year, I can think of a few midpricers from last year who fall into the first category and were sucessful (Leuenberger, Winderlich, Moloney, JJK), but have there been many failures in this category?
Conversely, I can think of a few examples of prospective picks who failed (Watts, Karnezis) have there been many success stories from the hyped-prospective pick side?


This year there are quite a few returning from injury (Bock, Pavlich, Higgins, Clark, Sandilands, Suckling, Beams, D.T etc.) and of course a lot breakout predictions (Swallow, Atley, Zeibell, Cunnington, B. Smith, Savage, Bennell, ... etc..). To minimise risk and maximise value, my guess is the first group of players will way outperform the second.. What do you think?

Please provide your answer in table format ;)

warmest regards,
t.g.
 

KLo30

Leadership Group
Joined
27 Jan 2014
Messages
18,104
Likes
52,784
AFL Club
North Melb.
On the figures I have in my RAMP, it will be a WC player. It says it will be Masten, followed by Scooter or Shuey. Outside of WC players, then next two highest predictions for round 8 are Liberatore and Lobbe!
Rowsus,

Scooter has the dreaded 20+ breakout/>102 tag to his name. Given he made the list by a -0.3 pt differential, how do you rate the prospect that he breaks the mould and raises his game to the 110+/top 10 level?

Cheers KLo
 
Last edited:
Joined
28 Dec 2012
Messages
4,021
Likes
2,719
Rowsus,

I'm considering going in with 3 midfield rookies this year, however when I show my team, people suggest trading out a Midfield Premium for a rookie and bringing an extra Forward premium in instead because the best cash cows are found in the middle.

Is this true?

My current MID/FWD price structure.

MID: 3 Super Premiums (600k+), 3 Premiums (500-599k), 1 Midpricer (200-499k) 3 Rookies
FWD: 1 Super Premium, 3 Midpricers (2 of which are 440k+), 4 Rookies.

Should I swap one of my three midfield premiums for a forward premium/high priced midpricer?

Link to my RMT posthttp://www.supercoachscores.com/threads/1074-Rate-My-Team/page14?p=74361&viewfull=1#post74361
Hi Rowsus,

I think maybe a list of the 2013 top
performing rookie priced players
would be helpful for this question.
 

Rowsus

Statistician
Joined
19 Mar 2012
Messages
29,134
Likes
64,899
AFL Club
Melbourne
Dear Rowsus,

Do you think there is a difference between selecting midpricers that fall into the categories returning injured-premiums and prospecitve upp-and-comers?
Based on last year, I can think of a few midpricers from last year who fall into the first category and were sucessful (Leuenberger, Winderlich, Moloney, JJK), but have there been many failures in this category?
Conversely, I can think of a few examples of prospective picks who failed (Watts, Karnezis) have there been many success stories from the hyped-prospective pick side?


This year there are quite a few returning from injury (Bock, Pavlich, Higgins, Clark, Sandilands, Suckling, Beams, D.T etc.) and of course a lot breakout predictions (Swallow, Atley, Zeibell, Cunnington, B. Smith, Savage, Bennell, ... etc..). To minimise risk and maximise value, my guess is the first group of players will way outperform the second.. What do you think?

Please provide your answer in table format ;)

warmest regards,
t.g.
A good question, but nearly impossible to draw a line on the definitions. Just as if you ask 10 Elite Coaches to give you a definition of exactly what defines a Premium player, you might get 10 similar, but also different answers, the same applies here. for example, amongst your "returning injured" Premiums/Midpricers you have JJK, whose best average prior to 2013 was 86.8, and 2nd best was 69.3. You also have Winderlich in there, who prior to 2013 had played 6 games in 2 seasons, and while he averaged 96.7 in 18 games in 2009, he fell to 19 games at 87.1 in 2010. Not something I would define as Premium, or Midprice potential, because his history was getting too old, but you might, so there in lies the difficulty.
The bottom line is, you are absolutely spot on. It is much better to back someone with a proven history of being able to score at a higher level than they are priced, than to try and "predict" that someone of a similar price, but no history, will suddenly increase in output. The pool of "fallen Premiums/Midpricers" is much smaller than the pool of 70-90 point breakout potential players, maybe as much as a ratio of 1:10, but I would say they both produce about the same amount of improved scoring players. If my guestimate is close to accurate, you are 10 times better off picking the "fallen Premium/Midpricer".

..... as to presenting my answer in table format, this the best I can do for you!
 
Last edited:
Joined
3 Feb 2014
Messages
3,702
Likes
5,297
AFL Club
West Coast
I try not to get too involved in Rookie discussions prior to the NAB. The bottom line is, we are all guessing until we see something that approaches "real" match conditions. Intra-clubs are not much help at all!
Eagling, on what we know historically, it would seem to be a very risky strategy. You are relying on too many Fwd and Def Rookies to raise cash for you. It seems doubtful you can do it. The other risk is, they not only need to make money, but you need them to have good JS, as you will be starting more than 2 on the ground. Once again, historically, that is pretty risky in the Fwd and Def lines, unless you overload your side with Midpricers, which brings it own problems!
Prochard, I am sorry. I really have no opinion on that yet, and would only be guessing, like everyone else! :)
Thanks for the help, Rowsus.

My team (As will most others) will probably go through a lot of structural changes before Round 1.

I thought I got a nice balance in my side - but on the flip side, you've pointed out a lack of room to grow.
 

Rowsus

Statistician
Joined
19 Mar 2012
Messages
29,134
Likes
64,899
AFL Club
Melbourne
Hi Rowsus,

I think maybe a list of the 2013 top
performing rookie priced players
would be helpful for this question.
I agree Nathan. :D
If you look in Broges Strategy section you will find he analysed these for us by position! :)
 

Rowsus

Statistician
Joined
19 Mar 2012
Messages
29,134
Likes
64,899
AFL Club
Melbourne
Rowsus,

Scooter has the dreaded 20+ breakout/>102 tag to his name. Given he made the list by a -0.3 pt differential, how do you rate the prospect that he breaks the mould and raises his game to the 110+/top 10 level?

Cheers KLo
This time last year Scooter was my pin up boy. I even had him down as a longshot for the Brownlow. I think he needs to improve his goal kicking, and disposal in general, and needs WC to find a half decent tagger, to stop Scooter tagging 8 to 10 games/season. I was hoping Wellingham might do that last season, but he didn't.
All in all I would only rate Scooter a 10-15% chance to get to 110+/top 10 level, and that includes allowing for WC's easy draw.
 

Rowsus

Statistician
Joined
19 Mar 2012
Messages
29,134
Likes
64,899
AFL Club
Melbourne
So Rowsus, just wondering if you would be able to provide a statistical analysis and report on Sloane? (Saw your reply and subtle suggestion in the midfield thread!). Cheers!
One of the things I like to see from a potential breakout/score jump player, is the ability to post good scores across a number of different scenarios. Winning teams, losing teams, home, interstate, moderate teams and harder teams. If their good scores are too concentrated in one area, it worries me that they are not diverse enough to make the jump we are looking for.
Sloanes good scores are very concentrated. Let's have a look at a few different ways to break his scores up. (As usual, my analysis only looks at the last 2 years)

I have used "In South Australia" rather than "home", as Adelaide are playing their home games at a new venue now.
In the top table:
The red scores contain his 178 in round 12, 2012 against Fremantle at Paterson
The blue scores contain his 180 in round 20, 2013 against North at AAMI
The purple scores contain both of the above scores.
I'm generally not too big of a fan, of the "If you take these scores out, his average looks like this" type of analysis. Having said that, if you remove Sloane's 2 monsters, you end up with the figures we have in the 2nd table. All of a sudden, the only area that looks good for him now, is games in South Australia, where Adelaide win by 31+. Even the 31+ wins interstate don't look that impressive. I know some/many of you will say any players figures will suffer, if you take out their 2 best scores, but even with those 2 games in, the other areas don't look tremendous
Looking at the bottom table, that breaks his scores up just in simple score groups, it doesn't look too bad. A third of his games are in the 116+ area. But pulling apart further 50% are below 100, and 20% below 86. Of his 14 games at 116+, 7 of them came in home wins, where the margin was 41+ (more than the 31+ in the other tables). If you want him to be a 115/game player, he needs around 12 - 15 games in this 116+ area. As historically 50% of these have come for him when Adelaide play in South Australia, and win by 41+, you might need that to happen in 6 to 8 of their 12 games in South Australia this season. The 12 games are against, in order: Port, Sydney, GWS, Melbourne, Collingwood, Gold Coast, North, Port, Hawthorn, West Coast, Richmond, St. Kilda. I can only see 3 games there I'd be happy to back them to win 41+, and maybe another one or two where they are an outside chance to do it.
Even looking at possibly improved opportunities from Van Berlo or Vince being gone doesn't help him. The only player being out, that really boosts his score is Douglas. In 6 games Sloane played without Douglas in the last 2 seasons he averaged 129.5 (the 178 is in there, but not the 180), all 6 scores were 112 or higher. When Douglas plays, Sloanes average drops to 102.7.
All in all, too many of his good scores seem to be coming from one scenario. big wins in South Australia.
He's a no for me on the breakout possibilty, as I think he is only a 15-20% chance to go 110+, and about 5-8% to 115+. Add his round 8 bye into the equation, and while I think there is only a little downside possibility to him (any player you take at that price should hopefully be a top 10 player) I think his risk outweighs his potential reward.
 
Last edited:

TeeJay

Rising Star Nominee
Joined
13 Jan 2014
Messages
74
Likes
3
Hey Rowsus, thanks for all your answers. Just reading your post above, do you think the new venue will effect Sloane or for that matter any of the other players? I doubt you can use stats to prove anything, so opinion is fine. Cheers
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top