Discussion 2022 Round 3: Teams & In Game Discussion

[Erich1036]

Points aren't fixed, though. The 50m he gave away directly cost his team a goal in a high scaling period of the game. I've seen players lose more than 5 points for doing something similar.

Even if we use the basic scoring, he was on 92 when he gave away the 50m, lost nothing, got the contested handball and went back up to 95 which is where he finished. Even using the points you listed, the contested handball should not have cancelled out the 50m penalty against, let alone earned him points. There was also enough of a lag (over 1 minute) between him giving away the 50m and getting the contested handball that we should've seen his score drop, but it didn't. A few people in here were even speculating if CD just completely missed it.

He actually ended up on 92 points, which is pretty close to where I'd expect it to be going off every act you've listed. Using the points I've listed, yeah maybe 90 points is more accurate, but we don't know what post-game scaling and other adjustments occurred. I don't think 2 points is worth complaining about though. 24 disposals, 10 contested, 83%DE and only 2 clangers for 92 SC seems more than reasonable.

 

[jobeywatto]

He actually ended up on 92 points, which is pretty close to where I'd expect it to be going off every act you've listed. Using the points I've listed, yeah maybe 90 points is more accurate, but we don't know what post-game scaling and other adjustments occurred. I don't think 2 points is worth complaining about though. 24 disposals, 10 contested, 83%DE and only 2 clangers for 92 SC seems more than reasonable.

Most players lost points post-game. English 156 to 152, Dunkley 131 to 129, Treloar 105 to 104, etc. So Macrae losing 3 was pretty typical, and not like they were correcting any errors. I agree it's not a massive deal, but it's just annoying when you feel like a super popular player you don't have is getting looked after.

 

[Erich1036]

Most players lost points post-game. English 156 to 152, Dunkley 131 to 129, Treloar 105 to 104, etc. So Macrae losing 3 was pretty typical, and not like they were correcting any errors. I agree it's not a massive deal, but it's just annoying when you feel like a super popular player you don't have is getting looked after.

100% get that mate. I just enjoy trying to get to bottom of a scoring issue

Most of the time scoring complaints are based around people not fully understanding the real scoring system, but it seems like you've got a good grasp on it. CD get it right for the most part in my opinion but human error is always a possibility unfortunately.

 

[Slacker]

Smashed is a bit much, even before Hickey went off English was a lot more competitive in the ruck than last week. Besides, Sydney's mids were so bad in clearances I don't think it matters.

Watching again last night, it also seems that the WBD mids have adapted cleverly to English's ruck style and compensate very well to their advantage, and to his.

 

[Ginty22]

Points aren't fixed, though. The 50m he gave away directly cost his team a goal in a high scaling period of the game. I've seen players lose more than 5 points for doing something similar. Just like how a goal can earn a player more than 8 points in a clutch situation.

Even if we use the basic scoring, he was on 92 when he gave away the 50m, lost nothing, got the contested handball and went back up to 95 which is where he finished. Even using the points you listed, the contested handball should not have cancelled out the 50m penalty against, let alone earned him points. There was also enough of a lag (over 1 minute) between him giving away the 50m and getting the contested handball that we should've seen his score drop, but it didn't. A few people in here were even speculating if CD just completely missed it.

There's constant scaling going on during the last quarter. Same reason why players who are subbed off scores still change after they're off
Sometimes that scaling can make it look like a player hasn't lost points/gained points for things that have happened
Will drive yourself nuts trying to put exact numbers on what a single possession or free kick/50 should have been

 

[freowho]

English doesn't have to be a great tap ruckman. As long as he can make life difficult for the other ruckmen and provide something else around the ground he'll keep getting a game. He looks bigger, is moving well and looks like he wants to impose himself on a contest.

 

[jobeywatto]

There's constant scaling going on during the last quarter. Same reason why players who are subbed off scores still change after they're off
Sometimes that scaling can make it look like a player hasn't lost points/gained points for things that have happened
Will drive yourself nuts trying to put exact numbers on what a single possession or free kick/50 should have been

I understand all that. Trust me dude, I've been wasting my weekends watching numbers go up and down on a screen for many years. I was just very surprised at how they scored Macrae's last quarter.

 

[THCLT]

English is the new Grundy.

 

[elzorko16]

English is the new Grundy.

So who is the new English?

 

[Slacker]

So who is the new English?

Meek??

 

[The Experiment]

So who is the new English?

And what/who now is Grundy?

 

[stephen]

So who is the new English?

Luke Jackson

 

[stephen]

And what/who now is Grundy?

The new Grundy is the now old Grundy.

English is the new Grundy (which is the older Grundy).

Pretty clear, really.

 

[Lgndhen23]

The new Grundy is the now old Grundy.

English is the new Grundy (which is the older Grundy).

Pretty clear, really.

you lost me at grundy

 

[Couch Coach]

English is the new Grundy.

The 207cm guy who was up against Joel Amartey the 197cm ruckman after Hickey went out in the 3rd quarter?

I seem to have a recollection of this happening before for Tim and then him getting rag dolled a few games later when he come up against a more developed ruckman.

 

[pizza safety]

The 207cm guy who was up against Joel Amartey the 197cm ruckman after Hickey went out in the 3rd quarter?

I seem to have a recollection of this happening before for Tim and then him getting rag dolled a few games later when he come up against a more developed ruckman.

I think the biggest mistake people are making in evaluating the English pick is misconstruing the bulldogs alternative ruck options. Stef Martin and Jordon Sweet were just as bad as tap rucks as English was last year and can’t do any of the other things he can do. Look at the hitout win % stats from last year. They don’t have a decent ruck to replace him.

And the point that’s being made is he’s like how Grundy was at stoppage and around the ground in 2018-19

 

[Herbie66]

Surely people are not realising now that English's greatest strengths are around the ground ?

Been saying for years I would play him as a mid or winger.

Rucking is just a bonus at this stage.

(And nope even knowing 2022 was his year , I didn't start him and went Grawndy instead)

 

[Dazza]

Surely people are not realising now that English's greatest strengths are around the ground ?

Been saying for years I would play him as a mid or winger.

Rucking is just a bonus at this stage.

(And nope even knowing 2022 was his year , I didn't start him and went Grawndy instead)

He plays more as a ruck rover than a ruckman, his not that great with hit outs

 

[Uncle Drew]

100% get that mate. I just enjoy trying to get to bottom of a scoring issue

Most of the time scoring complaints are based around people not fully understanding the real scoring system, but it seems like you've got a good grasp on it. CD get it right for the most part in my opinion but human error is always a possibility unfortunately.

There's constant scaling going on during the last quarter. Same reason why players who are subbed off scores still change after they're off
Sometimes that scaling can make it look like a player hasn't lost points/gained points for things that have happened
Will drive yourself nuts trying to put exact numbers on what a single possession or free kick/50 should have been

I think the scaling is the main issue with Macraes score. Unless it's changed, I'm pretty sure scaling still happens right throughout the game. We see it all the time where someone has a big first quarter, receives huge scaling at quarter time, then it comes back down to normal over the course of the game as other players take some scaling points, unless it was a blowout by quarter time. We also frequently see someone whos having a quiet last quarter in a close game, go backwards despite not doing any negative scoring acts.

Now when we look at Macrae, he was on something like 92-95 at 3QT which included scaling up till that point. Since the last quarter was close and he did nothing, he should have lost a huge chunk of his earlier scaling. But as was pointed out, he did a couple positive things, a few more negative things and his score dropped a couple points like it was AFL DT or whatever its called these days. If it was a blowout and the last quarter meant nothing than fair enough, but it wasn't, and to make it worse his 50m penalty came at a cruical time. I've seen injured players lose more points just for being on the bench in the last quarter of a close game than Macrae did for that 50m penalty.

It's really not that big of deal, if he scored low 80s no one would be complaining, so 10 points in the scheme of things is pretty minor unless it keeps occuring week after week. As a non owner I'm just happy that he dropped a sub 100 score and I might actually be able to afford him at some point this year.

 

[jobeywatto]

If it was a blowout and the last quarter meant nothing than fair enough, but it wasn't, and to make it worse his 50m penalty came at a cruical time. I've seen injured players lose more points just for being on the bench in the last quarter of a close game than Macrae did for that 50m penalty..

The 50m he gave away brought Sydney to within a kick with just over a minute to play. It's as high scaling a moment as possible, yet he lost literally nothing for it. He was on 92 at the time and I remember being happy thinking he'd drop down to 85 or so after that crucial mistake, but nope, his score only moved after he got a handball a minute and a half later. Unless CD awarded the 50m against to another player (which would be an error), I don't get it. Anyway I'm sure people are getting sick of me complaining.