2019: Super Early Player & SC Game Change Discussion

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I tend to agree. It’s the key reason why I think set and forget is not the best approach in the rucks. I will almost certainly start a non premium R2, with a goal of starting someone similar to 2018’s Lycett.
A rejuvenated Tom Hickey will be one worth looking at. Should have a new lease on life at a successful club, will pick up some handy coaching from Nic Nat as well. On my watch list.
 
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I'm thinking of not starting Titch. When he got traded to Hawthorn I posted that he would stay in my team for at least the next 5 years but he possibly gets tagged in rnds 3,4 and 5. Jacobs and Selwood are good taggers and St Kilda love a run with player with a few who can do the job. I've already pencilled in Grundy, Danger and Cripps as high priced starting picks so Titch might be an upgrade target. Titch also has the first bye so if I can't get him in early he could be a slingshot player.
Hmm you could be onto something there, he seemed to be tagged at times and deal with it well, but definitely not always. But I think he's the safest super expensive pick behind Danger and I think I just trust him a little bit more than Cripps, especially when I see that Cripps tends to start slow. I think he deals with the Selwood tag and the St Kilda tag reasonably well but gets held back a bit by Jacobs. He did get tagged in 14/22 games last year (fanfooty) and still averaged 129.1. I'm happy to cop a few bad scores just for the security of having him in my team and there's a small chance teams don't tag him as much and tag Wingard or Smith next year given they were 11-3 in the regular season this year in games where he was tagged. He absolutely mauled Brisbane twice and GWS without a tag and Hawthorn lost all 3 of those games.

I like Grundy, Titch, Danger, Fyfe, Kelly and Neale as picks who averaged over 110 last year.
 
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freowho

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Oh wow didn't realise it was that long!

In any event, probably will only average 90ish, and wouldn't be discounted cause he played 13 games.
If we are looking for an R2 placeholder they don't have to make a lot of money. Ideally they do make a lot of money, but if it gives you 8 weeks to see who the two best rucks are or maybe pick up Grundy or Gawn at $150k less than their starting price there is some value.
 

Bermi

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Hmm you could be onto something there, he seemed to be tagged at times and deal with it well, but definitely not always. But I think he's the safest super expensive pick behind Danger and I think I just trust him a little bit more than Cripps, especially when I see that Cripps tends to start slow. ...….......
Just wanting to point out that I think Cripps started ok this year. I'm a big fan of Cripps. Not many team mates to take points of him in the centre.

2018 - CRIPPS
Rd1 - 130
Rd2 - 115
Rd3 - 92
Rd4 - 92
Rd5 - 151
Rd6 - 143
Rd7 - 94
Rd8 - 111
Rd9 - 152
Rd10 - 97
 
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Just wanting to point out that I think Cripps started ok this year. I'm a big fan of Cripps. Not many team mates to take points of him in the centre.

2018 - CRIPPS
Rd1 - 130
Rd2 - 115
Rd3 - 92
Rd4 - 92
Rd5 - 151
Rd6 - 143
Rd7 - 94
Rd8 - 111
Rd9 - 152
Rd10 - 97
It was very good but he averaged 111.9 in his first 11 games and 126.9 in his 2nd 11 games, I just mean he starts slow by his own standards so at a bigger price might be better to start later in the year.
 

Bermi

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I thought old Simpson would of had an extra couples of weeks rest, instead of starting training a couple of week early :)

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-11-...m=feed&utm_campaign=RSS+feed:+AFL+Latest+News

CARLTON veteran Kade Simpson has hit the track early ahead of his 17th season in the AFL.
The Blues returned to pre-season training this week, with newly minted co-captain Sam Docherty also joining the club's first-to-fourth-year players at Ikon Park.
The defensive duo were back two weeks ahead of schedule, with the remainder of Carlton's playing group not expected to return until November 19.

Simpson, 34, has penned a one-year contract extension to continue his career into 2019, ahead of a year where he is set to break yet more games records with the Blues.
Having become just the fifth Carlton player to reach 300 games last season, Simpson needs to feature in just six more matches to surpass Stephen Silvagni in the all-time list of career games for the club, while he needs 22 more appearances to pass John Nicholls in third.

Docherty also returned for pre-season training early, almost a year after rupturing his ACL in an injury that sidelined the 2017 All Australian for all of last season.
 
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I rate Brett Ratten the best of the Midfield Coaches, so it will be interesting to see what difference he makes to Hannebery, and St Kilda, as a whole.
I have been interested in the impact of assistant coaches and how they cane turn teams around (and winning teams equals more SC points for their players normally)

In doing so I came across this post from June 2016 in BF. This is not the entire post as it is quite big but I found it very interesting. The poster is replying to a someone querying Ken Hinckley and the impact of the Port coaching team and compares Port to Clarkson and Hawthorn.



8 as a minimum but 10+ years is my definition of a preferred senior assistant, which is a combo of coaching your own side + being an AFL assistant coach. The coaching your own side bit is important, because you don't want too many professional assistant coaches in the box, and you only want a long term professional senior assistant who hasn't coached his own side, if he is known for his strategic thinking skills and isn't necessarily a great man manager to be a head coach eg Walsh, who had no desire to be the main man until he had a near death experience in Peru post 2012 season, his wife shortly after that got cancer, that's why he decided to move back to Adelaide, and then decided life is too short, so why not give it a go. Unfortunately fate dealt him a terrible hand.

Let's look at Hawthorn. Clarkson was born in 1968, Hinkley in 1966. When Clarkson started at the Hawks he had 2 guys with 8 years experience of coaching their own side and then moving into an AFL assistant roles in former Hawk Andy Collins - who was already an assistant at the club, and he drafted former Kangaroos player Ross Smith who was a team mate of Clarkson when he played at the Roos. Then Hardwick pinched Ross Smith at the end of 2011 ie his second year at Richmond so Hardwick had a 15 year senior assistant coach for the 2012 season. Collins coached Box Hill for a couple of years as part of the Hawks set up and then moved on to be Coburg coach which was part of the Richmond affiliation for a couple of years before taking over as West Adelaide Coach. Collins likes being in charge of his sides as he is coaching stand alone VFL side Williamstown who won the VFL flag last year, which was his second year in charge.

Clarkson also recruited Hardwick straight after he was appointed and Hardwick had just retired. He appointed Todd Viney who was a team mate of Clarkson at Melbourne, had spent his first year post retirement at Melbourne in 2000 and then went and coached his own side for 4 years in Echuca. That's where and when the Ollie and Jay Viney's friendship was established.

Clarkson pinched sports scientist Andrew Russell from Port but he also appointed another sports scientist from the AIS, Dath Rath to be a general sports coach, including his teaching skill acquisition talents. Rath like Russell, is still at the Hawks.

So from day 1 Clarkson had a nice blend of youth and plenty of experience in his coaching box.

So during the 2005 and 2006 seasons he had 2 assistants with 8 to 10 years experience. Between 2007 and 2011 season he had a 10+ year veteran in Ross Smith as his senior assistant and over the years he has refreshed his box with plenty of experience as well as inexperienced coaches.

For 2006 he adds Damien Christensen to his coaching group who has coached the Geelong Falcons for 6 years to replace Andy Collins and he coaches Box Hill. Christensen had been a recruiting officer for Port in 1998-99, would have worked with Pelchen and that would have been a nice link for Pelchen to recommend him to the group.

For 2007 Geoff Morris is added to the group, another Port man, who had coached his own side in the SANFL for 3 years before joining Port and then had a decade at Port as a development coach and general assistant coach.

For 2008 Barry Mitchell comes in to coach Box Hill Hawks replacing Christensen. Mitchell retired at end of 1996 at Carlton was their runner for several years before becoming assistant coach in 2000. Chris Fagan is added to the list to make 7 assistants who came in as head of development, was a mate of Clarko's at Melbourne and had been both an assistant coach from the start of Neale Daniher's tenure in 1998 to the end of 2004 season and then Melbourne's football manager.

So comparing apples for apples with Ken, in his 4th year of coaching Clarkson had as support:
Ross Smith his 12th year as a coach or AFL assistant coach
Todd Viney in his 9th year as a coach or AFL assistant coach
Damien Hardwick 4th year as an AFL assistant coach
Geoff Morris 15th year as a coach or AFL assistant coach
Barry Mitchell 9th year as an AFL assistant or coach of his own side
Chris Fagan 7th year as an assistant coach
Dath Rath 4th year as an AFL assistant coach + many years at the AIS.

They win the flag, they start getting raided, but they still keep putting good quality new and experienced coaches into the box.

For 2009 Clarko adds John Barker, Brendan Bolton, Chris Flood, Rick McGowan and out go Todd Viney back to Melbourne, Geoff Morris to the recruiting department, Barry Mitchell to Fremantle. Barker had 2 years at St Kilda as an assistant to Ross Lyon. Bolton was a captain coach in Tassie winning a flag in 2003 in his first year as a 24 year old captain coach of North Hobart and was given the Box Hill job, Flood was a development coach at the Bombers 1999-2003 Coached the Coburg Tigers (Richmond) in 2004-05 and then Calder Cannons in TAC cup. McGowan had coached Sturt for the previous 2 years and played under Clarko at Centrals. So in 2009 the coaching group was regenerated with some younger guys but there was still plenty of experience in such a big box.

For 2010 Clarko adds recently retired Adam Simpson another Clarko team mate from his time at the Roos and John Wardrop - who has 15 years experience as an opposition analyst at West Coast 1994-99, Collingwood 2000-2007. He was the first ever full time opposition analyst employed by an AFL club. Out goes Hardwick who got the Richmond job.

For 2011 Clarko adds Leon Cameron who finished playing in 2003 and spent the next 7 years as an assistant at the Bulldogs. Out goes Barker to Carlton as an assistant coach and not sure where McGowan went to.

For 2012 Clarko adds Luke Beveridge who has been coaching since 2000. He started his career at St Bede's Mentone Tigers in the Vic Amo's and took the C, B and A Grade premierships in 3 consecutive seasons. He spent 2009 and 2010 at Collingwood and had 2011 off. Out goes Ross Smith to Richmond and takes his 15 years experience.

For 2013 Clarko adds Brett Ratten and Cameron Bruce. Out goes Leon Cameron to get ready to coach GWS and Chris Flood. Ratten was an assistant coach at Melbourne in 2004 his first year after retirement, then coached his own team in the Eastern FL ie Norwood FC, returned to Carlton as an assistant in 2007, ended up coaching the last few games after Pagan got sacked and lasted until late in 2012, so came to Hawthorn with 9 years experience inc head coach and 120 games under his belt. Cameron Bruce retired mid 2012 at the Hawks and became a coach straight away - replacing development coach David Flood officially at the end of 2012.

For 2014 Clarko adds Damian Carroll and Adam Yze. He loses Adam Simpson to coach WCE and Chris Fagan became Footy Ops manager during 2013 when Mark Evans left and became AFL head of Footy Ops. Damian Carroll had a couple of years coaching the Gippsland Power in the TAC cup and then was appointed Box Hill Coach for 2010 season and won the flag in 2013. Adam Yze In 2012 and 2013 was a part time kicking and goal kicking coach at the Hawks before getting a full time gig.

For 2015 Clarko adds Rob McCartney and out goes Luke Beveridge to coach the Western Bulldogs. McCartney has spent over a decade of coaching his own sides in Vic country leagues inc Goulburn Valley and Central Murray leagues. And keeping to the teaching theme, Clarko is an ex teacher, McCartney has over 20 years experience as a teacher and school principal and is made head of development. I started looking closely at the Hawks coaching structure under Clarko's tenure about a month ago, when I heard Mark McClure on ABC radio with Stan Alves, talk about Clarko's coaching group structure, his teaching background and McCartney in particular and compared it to Collingwood's coaching group who are made up of only ex players who have never worked outside the AFL industry, ie gone from playing to assistant coach and never coached their own teams.

For 2016 Clarko adds Chris Newman, loses Brendon Bolton to Carlton and John Wardrop retires. Clarko continuing his trend of having adding recently retired player to the box every year or every second year.

You can do a similar exercise for Geelong since 2000 and Bomber was coach and see a similar pattern. Port has openly said we are copying the Hawthorn and Geelong models. Well to be successful we have to do more than try and copy their drafting and trading patterns, we also should look at how they have made sure their are plenty of talented and long term experienced people in their coaching group than aren't in and out like a dirty brown trout!
 
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There’s probably better options available but coming into his third year, he could bump that average up to triple digits with more run and attack.

2017 - 11 games @ 77
2018 - 20 games @ 90

FREMANTLE coach Ross Lyon has challenged emerging half-back Luke Ryan to become more damaging with his run from defence as the Dockers attempt to sharpen up their ball movement.

Ryan enjoyed a breakout 2018 campaign, with the strong-marking backman playing 20 games and finishing fifth in the Doig Medal count.

Entering his third season, the 22-year-old is established in Freo's best line-up and is now keen to add attacking dash to his game.

"I had the exit interview (with Lyon) and what he wanted me to work on was a bit more run off half-back, which I've never really done over my career," Ryan told 6PR.

"More run and with the kick-ins, do a little bit more stuff we want to do and probably take the game on a bit more, which I'll have to learn how to do.
 

Bermi

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RE: Ross Lyon has challenged emerging half-back Luke Ryan to become more damaging with his run from defence...…….. which I'll have to learn how to do.

Hmmm, that's a worry, can he learn or not???
 

Seymour Skinner

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There’s probably better options available but coming into his third year, he could bump that average up to triple digits with more run and attack.

2017 - 11 games @ 77
2018 - 20 games @ 90

FREMANTLE coach Ross Lyon has challenged emerging half-back Luke Ryan to become more damaging with his run from defence as the Dockers attempt to sharpen up their ball movement.

Ryan enjoyed a breakout 2018 campaign, with the strong-marking backman playing 20 games and finishing fifth in the Doig Medal count.

Entering his third season, the 22-year-old is established in Freo's best line-up and is now keen to add attacking dash to his game.

"I had the exit interview (with Lyon) and what he wanted me to work on was a bit more run off half-back, which I've never really done over my career," Ryan told 6PR.

"More run and with the kick-ins, do a little bit more stuff we want to do and probably take the game on a bit more, which I'll have to learn how to do.
1 of the 3 players to ever grace my never again list (Sam Jacobs and Rocky the other 2).
Used my second last trade to get him in round 18 last season in place of Sicily, proceeded to score 74, 47, 73 and 80 before having to use my last trade to get him out due to injury.

An average of 68.5, a loss off 57k and my 2 last trades.

Never. Again.

The icing on the cake was trading him out for Witherden in round 22... Twang.
 
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1 of the 3 players to ever grace my never again list (Sam Jacobs and Rocky the other 2).
Used my second last trade to get him in round 18 last season in place of Sicily, proceeded to score 74, 47, 73 and 80 before having to use my last trade to get him out due to injury.

An average of 68.5, a loss off 57k and my 2 last trades.

Never. Again.

The icing on the cake was trading him out for Witherden in round 22... Twang.
That’s a tough way to finish the year.

Funnily enough, those 2 guys you’ve mentioned are on my never again as well.
 

BC

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Surely with Lynch added to the tigers fwd line dusty will play less time in there. I think tigers will still be very dominant but will come back to the field some what, more to do with other teams natural progression. Meaning Dusty needed in the middle to do his thing.
Av of 103 this year. I don't think he'll be cheap again for a while. Hopefully is fully fit when he starts his preseason. Way to.much upside on his price not to start.
 
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