Analysis SuperCoach Scoring Explained, Observations & Complaints On Scoring

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And this is quite the dumbest reply I've seen in awhile as well. I guarantee you I do not follow every comment you've ever posted, and I have never seen your interpretation of how tackles work. You only quoting Rowsus instead of having your own input leaves me with no choice but to think you're agreeing with him just because he's Rowsus.

"Mate, if you're seriously going to complain over the scoring each week, why don't you go play AF or RDT instead... I don't get why you continue to play something that obviously makes you so angry and "triggered", as you put it yourself."
Classic response, still haven't provided sufficient justification to Bont's score, yet you're defending the system and telling any challenger of their scoring to leave. Like I said before, question what's infront of you instead of naively accept whatever you've been given, you have eyes and a brain for a reason.
Well I've made entire threads on my observations of SC scoring, you must have missed them :)

I was never trying to justify Bont's score, I agree it seems inflated while JPK seems underscored.. I was saying I think your interpretation of tackles is wrong. Not sure where you got the idea that that was my goal from?

I'm not telling people who question the scoring to leave at all, it just gets a little old and repetitive when it's literally the same one person who comes and complains about it week in, week out...
 

KLo30

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Well I've made entire threads on my observations of SC scoring, you must have missed them :)

I was never trying to justify Bont's score, I agree it seems inflated while JPK seems underscored.. I was saying I think your interpretation of tackles is wrong. Not sure where you got the idea that that was my goal from?

I'm not telling people who question the scoring to leave at all, it just gets a little old and repetitive when it's literally the same one person who comes and complains about it week in, week out...
Collingwood supporters hey................hahaha
 

Philzsay

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Bump. CD's explanation of how tackling is scored from last year.


The defensive aspect of SuperCoach is just as important as the offensive.

Teams have lifted in the tackling department with the competition average jumping to 67.4 per game – the second-biggest recorded in any season to date.

A tackle can be defined as using physical contact to prevent an opponent in possession of the ball from getting an effective disposal. If a player has on, two, or more players hanging off him and executes an effective kick or handball, then a tackle will not be awarded.

The most rewarding tackle in SuperCoach is the run down tackle that dispossess a player, or otherwise known as the Cyril Rioli chase-down. This act is rewarded with six SuperCoach points.

A standard tackle, when a player prevents his opponent from disposing of the ball, is worth four SuperCoach points.

If a player is tackled and records a clanger or ineffective disposal — for example, kicking the ball out on the full — the tackler is rewarded with a ‘tackled by’ stat. That is also worth four SuperCoach points.

And Champion Data also records ‘disposessed by’ which applies to players who have won possession but doesn’t get a disposal away.

TACKLES SUPERCOACH POINTS
Run-down tackle dispossessed 6
Tackle 4
Tackle from dispossessed 4
Tackle by 4
The leading tackler in the competition after four rounds is Andrew Swallow with 35, five more than any other player. He has built his game around relentless tackling and ranks second in the AFL for tackles since debuting in 2006.

Next best are Will Langford and Jack Ziebell with 30 tackles apiece, with the latter’s 19 against Melbourne in Round 3 making up most of his tally. Ziebell had just 19 disposals but scored 124 SuperCoach points that day.

PLAYER TACKLES
Andrew Swallow 35
Will Langford 30
Jack Ziebell 30
Patrick Cripps 29
Tom Mitchell 29
Scott Thompson 29
Luke Dahlhaus 28
Gary Ablett 27
Zach Merrett 27
Luke Shuey 26
Champion Data also analyses the effectiveness of a tackle. Tackle efficiency is calculated by the percentage of physical pressure acts that lead to an effective tackle. When using this as the measure, Ziebell’s tackle efficiency of 78.9 per cent is the best of the top 10 players in the competition for tackle attempts.


Essendon's Zach Merrett makes a great tackle on Patrick Dangerfield. Picture: Colleen Petch
At the opposing end of that scale is Shane Mumford, recording a tackle efficiency of 56.8 per cent – the lowest of that group. This is a stat Mitch Duncan might find surprising.

PLAYER TACKLE EFFICIENCY
Jack Ziebell 78.9
Andrew Swallow 72.9
Gary Ablett 67.5
Zach Merrett 67.5
Scott Thompson 67.4
Tom Mitchell 65.9
Patrick Cripps 64.4
Will Langford 63.8
Levi Greenwood 57.8
Shane Mumford 56.8
Winning a free kick for holding the ball is another way a player can be rewarded in SuperCoach for a tackle, with a free kick worth four points.

Adelaide’s Eddie Betts has won six holding the ball frees this year, the most in the comp ahead of Cyril Rioli, Patrick Cripps, Dayne Zorko, Paul Puopolo and Jamie Cripps (four each).

On the other side of the coin, Eagle Luke Shuey has been caught holding the ball more than any other player, giving up six frees for that offence in four games. Tom Hawkins is next worst with four.
 
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If a player gets an effective possession away despite being tackled, it doesn't count as a tackle. Anyone who watches a game and follows the live scoring / basic player stats will notice this pretty quickly.

On the other hand, if a player has an ineffective disposal while being tackled, even if one might classify this as a 'soft tackle', it counts as a tackle.
 

Bomber18

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If a player gets an effective possession away despite being tackled, it doesn't count as a tackle. Anyone who watches a game and follows the live scoring / basic player stats will notice this pretty quickly.

On the other hand, if a player has an ineffective disposal while being tackled, even if one might classify this as a 'soft tackle', it counts as a tackle.
I think that's the definition of a tackle in SC. Per Philzay's post, it's a "tackled by"

If a player is tackled and records a clanger or ineffective disposal — for example, kicking the ball out on the full — the tackler is rewarded with a ‘tackled by’ stat. That is also worth four SuperCoach points.
 
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Man people get all antsy in the pantsy about this scoring stuff eh? Truth be told they can score the game however they see fit and not a single one of us can do anything about it. The scores ARE the scores full stop. Trying to analyse it is a moot point in a game like this, just roll with the punches boys :D
 

KLo30

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Man people get all antsy in the pantsy about this scoring stuff eh? Truth be told they can score the game however they see fit and not a single one of us can do anything about it. The scores ARE the scores full stop. Trying to analyse it is a moot point in a game like this, just roll with the punches boys :D


In the struggle for survival, the fittest win out at the expense of their rivals because they succeed in adapting themselves best to their environment.
 
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It just so happens one of Champion Data's last responses (on Twitter) was to someone who had Prochard's interpretation of tackling.

Video available for viewing here: https://twitter.com/dylan_holt10/status/871285285883006976

General description of the short clip - Walters lays a strong tackle on Treloar for a few seconds but Treloar gets a kick away which ends up in the hands of a teammate. According to Prochard, this is deemed a tackle.

Twitter user who posted the video: "Been following this game very closely.. Please tell me how this isn't a tackle to Michael Walters. ~22:30 in 3rd"

Champion Data: "Uncontested possession to Elliott = Effective kick to Treloar = No tackle to Walters."



Very interested to see if Prochard can admit he's wrong or not now... :rolleyes:
 

Rowsus

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It just so happens one of Champion Data's last responses (on Twitter) was to someone who had Prochard's interpretation of tackling.

Video available for viewing here: https://twitter.com/dylan_holt10/status/871285285883006976

General description of the short clip - Walters lays a strong tackle on Treloar for a few seconds but Treloar gets a kick away which ends up in the hands of a teammate. According to Prochard, this is deemed a tackle.

Twitter user who posted the video: "Been following this game very closely.. Please tell me how this isn't a tackle to Michael Walters. ~22:30 in 3rd"

Champion Data: "Uncontested possession to Elliott = Effective kick to Treloar = No tackle to Walters."



Very interested to see if Prochard can admit he's wrong or not now... :rolleyes:
You'd like to think this would be enough to convince Prochard, but history tells me it won't be.
He is very set in his opinions, and it doesn't seem there's much you can ever do to persuade him of others points of view.
It's a pity, because apart from when he get's the bone between his teeth, he comes across as a reasonable guy. The problem is, he's been chewing that bone a bit lately.
 
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You'd like to think this would be enough to convince Prochard, but history tells me it won't be.
He is very set in his opinions, and it doesn't seem there's much you can ever do to persuade him of others points of view.
It's a pity, because apart from when he get's the bone between his teeth, he comes across as a reasonable guy. The problem is, he's been chewing that bone a bit lately.
Agree, Prochard adds a lot of value on this site. SC scoring seems to lead many into emotional areas of the game.

Rowsus - we hear about tackles and effective tackles and I appreciate the difference. When we see stats say 7 tackles to XYZ player, do they state the gross amount of tackles or just the effective ones (which I think includes anything that leads to the ball not be dispossessed to another teammate).

ps. IDIG has posted one of your earlier comments. wow Selwood actually laid 17 effective tackles if my interpretation is correct.
 
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Bomber18

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Wow, great insight into how CD actually score their stats. Method to the madness.
 
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I would imagine that because of the cap on SC points per game, tackles are not a fixed score, but rather variable in a range of something in the order of 2-4 points/tackle depending on the total number of tackles in a game. I would also imagine many other scoring categories are like this, which is why it is not as simple as saying "X act is worth X points". It's a confusing system in comparison to the transparency in scoring of DT and Fantasy but for me, it enhances my viewing experience as it makes me appreciate the little things players do that are not rewarded in DT and Fantasy.
 
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Can't argue with that!

The most interesting stat there for me is the hitout to advantage. Appears as if the area of the ground makes a difference. So a HTA in the defensive 50 is worth more than one in the middle of the ground. Will start monitoring the live scores.
 

IDIG

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There are no "soft" tackles.
A Tackle is only recorded if:
the ball is put into dispute
or
a stoppage is caused
or
a turnover is forced
Most "tackles" you see in a game, aren't actually tackles, as the player still gets his handball/kick away.
The defensive aspect of SuperCoach is just as important as the offensive.

Teams have lifted in the tackling department with the competition average jumping to 67.4 per game – the second-biggest recorded in any season to date.

A tackle can be defined as using physical contact to prevent an opponent in possession of the ball from getting an effective disposal. If a player has on, two, or more players hanging off him and executes an effective kick or handball, then a tackle will not be awarded.

The most rewarding tackle in SuperCoach is the run down tackle that dispossess a player, or otherwise known as the Cyril Rioli chase-down. This act is rewarded with six SuperCoach points.

A standard tackle, when a player prevents his opponent from disposing of the ball, is worth four SuperCoach points.

If a player is tackled and records a clanger or ineffective disposal — for example, kicking the ball out on the full — the tackler is rewarded with a ‘tackled by’ stat. That is also worth four SuperCoach points.

And Champion Data also records ‘disposessed by’ which applies to players who have won possession but doesn’t get a disposal away.

It just so happens one of Champion Data's last responses (on Twitter) was to someone who had Prochard's interpretation of tackling.

Video available for viewing here: https://twitter.com/dylan_holt10/status/871285285883006976

General description of the short clip - Walters lays a strong tackle on Treloar for a few seconds but Treloar gets a kick away which ends up in the hands of a teammate. According to Prochard, this is deemed a tackle.

Twitter user who posted the video: "Been following this game very closely.. Please tell me how this isn't a tackle to Michael Walters. ~22:30 in 3rd"

Champion Data: "Uncontested possession to Elliott = Effective kick to Treloar = No tackle to Walters."

Very interested to see if Prochard can admit he's wrong or not now... :rolleyes:
I gotta admit i did not know this, goes to show what i bloody know!

I kinda wish i knew this in those games scooter got 17 tackles, it would be really interesting to see how he effected the disposal each time because i certainly did not watch how the ball was disposed of afterwards. Will definitely watch with a more open mind from now on!
 
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I would imagine that because of the cap on SC points per game, tackles are not a fixed score, but rather variable in a range of something in the order of 2-4 points/tackle depending on the total number of tackles in a game. I would also imagine many other scoring categories are like this, which is why it is not as simple as saying "X act is worth X points". It's a confusing system in comparison to the transparency in scoring of DT and Fantasy but for me, it enhances my viewing experience as it makes me appreciate the little things players do that are not rewarded in DT and Fantasy.
Agreed.
Although I'd go further and say that it seems that a lot of the things you can get a score on are variable depending on the context of the play/game -
which can be frustrating but also makes SC unique. Makes it difficult to compare SC performances across games as the contexts are different as opposed to the objective nature of DT.
 

IDIG

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View attachment 2970
I was completely wrong about tackles. This is pretty big from CD.
This is great insight. I'm assuming there has been some backlash on the twitter world which is why this has been released.

I guess we can put it down to being a quirk of the scoring system because from the naked eye, there certainly wasn't 9 pts difference between the two imo.
 
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I would imagine that because of the cap on SC points per game, tackles are not a fixed score, but rather variable in a range of something in the order of 2-4 points/tackle depending on the total number of tackles in a game. I would also imagine many other scoring categories are like this, which is why it is not as simple as saying "X act is worth X points". It's a confusing system in comparison to the transparency in scoring of DT and Fantasy but for me, it enhances my viewing experience as it makes me appreciate the little things players do that are not rewarded in DT and Fantasy.
I think there is a variation on scoring of tackles, which is more related to whether it creates a turnover vs a stoppage (less valuable).

dont think total tackles would be a factor, just as total kicks are not.

other influencing factors would maybe be which quarter (last quart in close game worth more) and maybe I/D 50 location (just as marks are worth more).
 
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