Discussion 2021: AFL Pre-Season Practice Matches & AAMI Community Series Discussion

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Wogi game summaries were legendary at FFC:cool:
When you don’t get a chance to watch a game they are invaluable.

I watched most of the Carl v Ess, agree with most of the comments. Little surprised on the Waterman ones though, for the limited time he had on the ground he certainly had a real impact/ looked the most dangerous bomber fwd when on the ground.
I believe he kicked 3 of his 4 goals in the 4th quarter that I didn't watch, to be honest I only really noticed him a couple of times in the 3 quarters I saw but I did like what I saw from him in those moments.
 
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So the FFC guys will know these but for those who don't I try to watch a lot of the preseason and then give my summary. So here is the first of the year!

First off, if anyone finds links to replays like the Essendon/Carlton game then post them here and I'll find some time for them!

Now for the Essendon vs Carlton game, I watched 3/4, a few guys were off by that point and I don't find a lot of benefit in watching once that's happened...

General - First off, man on the mark, I honestly didn't notice it much at all but I say this with the disclaimer that this was very much a scratch match, low intensity and very little structuring by either team so it's hard to see how it impacted on all of that but overall I barely noticed it and I was genuinely looking for it so that's a good sign. As stated, pretty low intensity game but both teams relatively strong sides so that's good for reading the positional stuff.

Finally, how bloody good was the commentary in this game, Cal Twomey and Riley Beveridge were just awesome! Pure football, analysis and insight and none of the Bruce style BS that ruins so many games. Utterly refreshing.

Essendon - I thought they were decent, bit sloppy at times going forward and certainly let the Blues rebound far too easily, which is a major concern, but I think they'd be happy, broke even at worst in the midfield and probably were slightly ahead which is pretty solid against a decent Blues midfield. I thought their defense was mostly pretty good, a lot of the Blues goals were a result of lacklustre transition defense and pressure on ball carriers but this was both sides and it's hard to read much more into it.

Draper - Really solid hitout for him, he looks good. He's 50k from being a really strong option but I think he can score well, Essendon had a very genuine ruck split and he dominated it (for the half he played) and was the better ruck for mine. Did some nice things but realistically I think he's still a couple of years away from potential premium levels.

Parish - Not fantasy relevant for mine but played well in a predominantly midfield role. He felt like the most fringe of the midfield group other than maybe Shiel so would have to think he's perhaps the guy who falls out with McGrath back but he played well.

Langford - Have talked him up and he did absolutely nothing to sway me away from him. Averaged 94 over his last 5 last year when he seemed to get more midfield time (anyone with evidence to the contrary/in support please feel free to add!) and his role was excellent in this one, basically the 4th midfielder from what I saw and he was just everywhere. Love that he marks, tackles and can hit the scoreboard as well as get the ball. He's probably my favourite in his price range right now. Big tick.

Smith - Shame he's not a forward, looks cherry ripe. Not fantasy relevant outside maybe LOL where he's a chance to get FWD status if his role remains like this. Was playing the high HF role he excelled at with GWS but mostly just moving so much better this year which is great to see.

Caldwell - His role was really good, he was really solid. I'm not sure if he moved the needle much for me, he's the pick at his price that I can find with a couple of others and this game just confirmed that. Hard to read his role with Shiel playing such a peripheral role (basically out there for a trot it seemed) and no McGrath who both would be ahead of him I'd think. That said, that he's next in line or ahead of them says a lot. I came away with as many questions as answers though but he's a must watch next game where hopefully McGrath is involved and either Shiel nixes him or again plays HF to confirm as much as possible on Caldwell's role.

Merrett - He moved way up my list, I'd kind of been shading him as I have an irrational love of him as a player but his role was absolute perfection, #1 midfielder in the clearances where his exceptional tackling really stood out and his ball use just is so good which when it becomes a contested handball pushes him so much higher in SC and he still is just beyond elite at finding space. Reactionary but he's worked into my team for now, genuinely could go #1 midfielder this year in that role with his skillset. Same role that he was playing to my eye to end last year when he stormed home.

Shiel - As mentioned, seemed to be playing HF and completely disinterested in the game. Did almost nothing. Not fantasy relevant to me anyway.

Cox - The shock to me, I mean this in the best possible way but strong Cale Morton flash backs to him and I mean the Cale Morton who put up 61 as a rookie and then 84 his second season not the one who ran away from Lade and fell off a cliff afterwards, reckon Cox is very capable of being somewhere in that range, at a guess he looked to be a 70+ rookie to me. He's very slim but so tall and seemed to always find space and work onto the lead for his teammates, the perfect modern winger essentially and he was one of the Bombers best for mine. He was by far the best of the guys roaming through the wing and alongside Langford is their only midfielder who presents any kind of marking target so I think he's a very strong odds to be in the team round 1 with solid JS and exceptional scoring potential. To me he looked a must have and start on field rookie. Very impressed.

Ridley - Started slowly and looked off the pace but he built into the game nicely. The aforementioned lack of structure from either team had him very limited in intercept work but took almost every kick-in, demanding them even, and he looked alright despite the preseason injury. Going to leave him out of my team on my no bad preseason rule but he looked good.

Perkins - Very slight but moves really well. Wouldn't shock me if he's named round 1 but think both the scoring and JS would be underwhelming which given the premium price makes it a "pure necessity" type of pick.

Hurley - Showed up on crutches and the way he was moving he looks an awfully long way off.

Hind - Really solid, good option in draft leagues, think he's about 70k too expensive for SC purposes but I'll be watching very closely still in the next game as he did some really nice things and the rebounding half back is a really solid role.

Wright - He's also probably about 70k too expensive. Didn't look any different to the GC version, which puts him at the 65-70 range, was solid as the backup ruck and that was clearly his role with both the rucks and he's best 22 but priced at 54 is just a bit high. If he was a R/F I think he might be worth it but not as is as I don't think you would field him comfortably.

Heppell - Impressively unimpressive. He looked fit, moved well and did some nice things but also didn't do enough of anything. Still think he's a very strong pick at his price though with proven scoring history.

Jones - Really impressive as what I would call the main KPF. He moves well and presents well and was very adept at finding holes to lead into. At his price he's a really solid bench rookie option if picked round 1. I think he was better than Hooker but whether they'd pick him ahead of him is the main question.

Bryan - Not fantasy relevant barring injury to Draper but he looks a terrific ruck prospect. Needs to add a good 10kg, possibly more, but if he can do that and keep the mobility he could be an outstanding ruckman. Great followup work and already ahead of some first team rucks around the ground with solid skills. Really impressive. Kind of guy I'd love for Sydney to target this o***eason with the lure of the #1 role.

Cahill - Really solid role off half back. Looks a solid 60-65 type who will probably have a couple of 90+ type games to push his price. Really solid rookie option and worth the premium to me assuming he wins the role.

Ham - Not fantasy relevant but he played a great game, disposal was suspect but workrate was terrific.

Guelfi - Another who is probably not fantasy relevant but if he plays like he did in this one there is at least a question there. Seemed to be on the wing and really enjoyed the space.

Waterman - I wasn't as impressed with him as I thought I'd be based on the thread. He was solid and did some nice things and would be a solid option depending on what's happening with Stringer but I'd like to see a bit more in the next match.
Excellent summaries! Really appreciate the time you have spent going through these.

The Dogs/Hawks match is available on the Hawthorn website:

https://www.hawthornfc.com.au/video
 
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Obviously Estimated SC Score is not an exact science, given there is so many other statistical categories that go into producing a SC score, scaling and game situation factors, etc. FWIW from closely rewatching the game and specifically these players, gut feel is Walsh and Cripps scores are pretty well ballpark in my eyes, maybe Williams feels 10-15 overs, Heppell maybe 5 overs, and Cahill about right, he was quite impressive on the watch back and with a couple more effective kicks rather than turnovers would've pushed a 70 type number.

I was pretty strict on the ineffective kicks and also what constitutes a tackle in the stats sheet throughout. As I tried to judge everything as best I could based off my learnings over the years from my mate who works as a stats caller for CD.
Great work
 

Bomber18

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Obviously Estimated SC Score is not an exact science, given there is so many other statistical categories that go into producing a SC score, scaling and game situation factors, etc. FWIW from closely rewatching the game and specifically these players, gut feel is Walsh and Cripps scores are pretty well ballpark in my eyes, maybe Williams feels 10-15 overs, Heppell maybe 5 overs, and Cahill about right, he was quite impressive on the watch back and with a couple more effective kicks rather than turnovers would've pushed a 70 type number.

I was pretty strict on the ineffective kicks and also what constitutes a tackle in the stats sheet throughout. As I tried to judge everything as best I could based off my learnings over the years from my mate who works as a stats caller for CD.
Very nice work mate! I found the below disposal tallies on the Essendon stats from bomberblitz. Cahill bang on but they had Heppell a bit higher.

0A32A31F-55F4-441B-9D33-375EDD330841.jpeg
 

Goodie's Guns

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Very nice work mate! I found the below disposal tallies on the Essendon stats from bomberblitz. Cahill bang on but they had Heppell a bit higher.

View attachment 26504
How many do you think Heppell had?
I'm fairly confident that there's no way Heppell had 19. I think they've undersold Hind as well. I wouldn't be surprised if they've muddled them up on occasions, because to be fair they were both hard to distinguish apart hahaha.
 

Bomber18

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Obviously Estimated SC Score is not an exact science, given there is so many other statistical categories that go into producing a SC score, scaling and game situation factors, etc. FWIW from closely rewatching the game and specifically these players, gut feel is Walsh and Cripps scores are pretty well ballpark in my eyes, maybe Williams feels 10-15 overs, Heppell maybe 5 overs, and Cahill about right, he was quite impressive on the watch back and with a couple more effective kicks rather than turnovers would've pushed a 70 type number.

I was pretty strict on the ineffective kicks and also what constitutes a tackle in the stats sheet throughout. As I tried to judge everything as best I could based off my learnings over the years from my mate who works as a stats caller for CD.
Fwiw from this I calculated DT scores as

Cripps 69 DT
Walsh 80 DT
ZWilliams 83 DT
Cahill 51 DT
Heppell 41 DT
 
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Yep pure inside mid early but no McGrath today...
Joe Daniher will make his first appearance as a Lion tomorrow.
The boom recruit takes his place in a near full strength side for the practice match against the Suns at Metricon Stadium.
The Lions have named a 25-man squad that includes Brownlow medalist Lachie Neale and skipper Dayne Zorko who have both returned to full training after modified pre-season programs.
Ely Smith, Keidean Coleman, Rhys Mathieson, Tom Fullarton and Irishman James Madden have all been given the opportunity to press their claims for a round one position by being named in the senior side.
The side to play in the reserves curtain raiser features the likes of Mitch Robinson, Marcus Adams, Cam Ellis-Yolmen and new faces Blake Coleman, Henry Smith, Harry Sharp, Carter Michael and Deividas Uosis.
Darcy Gardiner is the one established senior player who will not play as he continues to work his way back to full fitness from a knee injury suffered prior to last season’s preliminary final.
New recruit Nakia Cockatoo is the other player with senior experience who will not take part.

Big watch on Ely Smith, would be very handy if he is playing round 1 - interesting on Robbo, looks under real pressure to keep his spot in the 22.
and don’t forget young Tom Fullerton....has had a good off season.
 

Bomber18

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How many do you think Heppell had?
I'm fairly confident that there's no way Heppell had 19. I think they've undersold Hind as well. I wouldn't be surprised if they've muddled them up on occasions, because to be fair they were both hard to distinguish apart hahaha.
Qtr by qtr was this fwiw

7D4A27F3-6BA5-4AAE-829A-E8C7B5E1FD4D.jpeg
 
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So the FFC guys will know these but for those who don't I try to watch a lot of the preseason and then give my summary. So here is the first of the year!

First off, if anyone finds links to replays like the Essendon/Carlton game then post them here and I'll find some time for them!

Now for the Essendon vs Carlton game, I watched 3/4, a few guys were off by that point and I don't find a lot of benefit in watching once that's happened...

General - First off, man on the mark, I honestly didn't notice it much at all but I say this with the disclaimer that this was very much a scratch match, low intensity and very little structuring by either team so it's hard to see how it impacted on all of that but overall I barely noticed it and I was genuinely looking for it so that's a good sign. As stated, pretty low intensity game but both teams relatively strong sides so that's good for reading the positional stuff.

Finally, how bloody good was the commentary in this game, Cal Twomey and Riley Beveridge were just awesome! Pure football, analysis and insight and none of the Bruce style BS that ruins so many games. Utterly refreshing.

Essendon - I thought they were decent, bit sloppy at times going forward and certainly let the Blues rebound far too easily, which is a major concern, but I think they'd be happy, broke even at worst in the midfield and probably were slightly ahead which is pretty solid against a decent Blues midfield. I thought their defense was mostly pretty good, a lot of the Blues goals were a result of lacklustre transition defense and pressure on ball carriers but this was both sides and it's hard to read much more into it.

Draper - Really solid hitout for him, he looks good. He's 50k from being a really strong option but I think he can score well, Essendon had a very genuine ruck split and he dominated it (for the half he played) and was the better ruck for mine. Did some nice things but realistically I think he's still a couple of years away from potential premium levels.

Parish - Not fantasy relevant for mine but played well in a predominantly midfield role. He felt like the most fringe of the midfield group other than maybe Shiel so would have to think he's perhaps the guy who falls out with McGrath back but he played well.

Langford - Have talked him up and he did absolutely nothing to sway me away from him. Averaged 94 over his last 5 last year when he seemed to get more midfield time (anyone with evidence to the contrary/in support please feel free to add!) and his role was excellent in this one, basically the 4th midfielder from what I saw and he was just everywhere. Love that he marks, tackles and can hit the scoreboard as well as get the ball. He's probably my favourite in his price range right now. Big tick.

Smith - Shame he's not a forward, looks cherry ripe. Not fantasy relevant outside maybe LOL where he's a chance to get FWD status if his role remains like this. Was playing the high HF role he excelled at with GWS but mostly just moving so much better this year which is great to see.

Caldwell - His role was really good, he was really solid. I'm not sure if he moved the needle much for me, he's the pick at his price that I can find with a couple of others and this game just confirmed that. Hard to read his role with Shiel playing such a peripheral role (basically out there for a trot it seemed) and no McGrath who both would be ahead of him I'd think. That said, that he's next in line or ahead of them says a lot. I came away with as many questions as answers though but he's a must watch next game where hopefully McGrath is involved and either Shiel nixes him or again plays HF to confirm as much as possible on Caldwell's role.

Merrett - He moved way up my list, I'd kind of been shading him as I have an irrational love of him as a player but his role was absolute perfection, #1 midfielder in the clearances where his exceptional tackling really stood out and his ball use just is so good which when it becomes a contested handball pushes him so much higher in SC and he still is just beyond elite at finding space. Reactionary but he's worked into my team for now, genuinely could go #1 midfielder this year in that role with his skillset. Same role that he was playing to my eye to end last year when he stormed home.

Shiel - As mentioned, seemed to be playing HF and completely disinterested in the game. Did almost nothing. Not fantasy relevant to me anyway.

Cox - The shock to me, I mean this in the best possible way but strong Cale Morton flash backs to him and I mean the Cale Morton who put up 61 as a rookie and then 84 his second season not the one who ran away from Lade and fell off a cliff afterwards, reckon Cox is very capable of being somewhere in that range, at a guess he looked to be a 70+ rookie to me. He's very slim but so tall and seemed to always find space and work onto the lead for his teammates, the perfect modern winger essentially and he was one of the Bombers best for mine. He was by far the best of the guys roaming through the wing and alongside Langford is their only midfielder who presents any kind of marking target so I think he's a very strong odds to be in the team round 1 with solid JS and exceptional scoring potential. To me he looked a must have and start on field rookie. Very impressed.

Ridley - Started slowly and looked off the pace but he built into the game nicely. The aforementioned lack of structure from either team had him very limited in intercept work but took almost every kick-in, demanding them even, and he looked alright despite the preseason injury. Going to leave him out of my team on my no bad preseason rule but he looked good.

Perkins - Very slight but moves really well. Wouldn't shock me if he's named round 1 but think both the scoring and JS would be underwhelming which given the premium price makes it a "pure necessity" type of pick.

Hurley - Showed up on crutches and the way he was moving he looks an awfully long way off.

Hind - Really solid, good option in draft leagues, think he's about 70k too expensive for SC purposes but I'll be watching very closely still in the next game as he did some really nice things and the rebounding half back is a really solid role.

Wright - He's also probably about 70k too expensive. Didn't look any different to the GC version, which puts him at the 65-70 range, was solid as the backup ruck and that was clearly his role with both the rucks and he's best 22 but priced at 54 is just a bit high. If he was a R/F I think he might be worth it but not as is as I don't think you would field him comfortably.

Heppell - Impressively unimpressive. He looked fit, moved well and did some nice things but also didn't do enough of anything. Still think he's a very strong pick at his price though with proven scoring history.

Jones - Really impressive as what I would call the main KPF. He moves well and presents well and was very adept at finding holes to lead into. At his price he's a really solid bench rookie option if picked round 1. I think he was better than Hooker but whether they'd pick him ahead of him is the main question.

Bryan - Not fantasy relevant barring injury to Draper but he looks a terrific ruck prospect. Needs to add a good 10kg, possibly more, but if he can do that and keep the mobility he could be an outstanding ruckman. Great followup work and already ahead of some first team rucks around the ground with solid skills. Really impressive. Kind of guy I'd love for Sydney to target this o***eason with the lure of the #1 role.

Cahill - Really solid role off half back. Looks a solid 60-65 type who will probably have a couple of 90+ type games to push his price. Really solid rookie option and worth the premium to me assuming he wins the role.

Ham - Not fantasy relevant but he played a great game, disposal was suspect but workrate was terrific.

Guelfi - Another who is probably not fantasy relevant but if he plays like he did in this one there is at least a question there. Seemed to be on the wing and really enjoyed the space.

Waterman - I wasn't as impressed with him as I thought I'd be based on the thread. He was solid and did some nice things and would be a solid option depending on what's happening with Stringer but I'd like to see a bit more in the next match.
Great Summary.

In the FWD line is Cahill worth the extra $ over Jones if both selected. Currently have Jones at F6 .?
 

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Riley Thilthope just played a quarter of footy boy oh boy :eek::D - i just updated my match comments in post 296
It's a SANFL practice match, he would want to have been very, very good. I'd still like to see him get a proper full pre-season game against AFL opposition in before I would select him.
 
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It's a SANFL practice match, he would want to have been very, very good. I'd still like to see him get a proper full pre-season game against AFL opposition in before I would select him.
oh for sure - i think i am more excited as a supporter than SC - he was seriously dominant though. I think we will see him in the 1's next week

as a key fwd you also get worse delivery in the 2's and it can be hard to get into the game
 
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