Discussion Re-Signings, Retirements, Delistings, Trade & Drafting
- Thread starter Herbie66
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Unpopular opinion.
I think the longevity of his greatness is over-rated. Because he had 2 really good seasons, and one absolutely amazing season (2017), it came across as he was still "marvelled" for a good quarter here or there. Outside of those seasons, there wasn't enough consistency in his greatness. To put it into to perspective, outside of trading on name and reputation, if they picked a best team every 5 years, he'd only make the 2016-2020 team. Absolutely the best player in the comp 2017, but he was only AA 4 times. Remove that 2016-2020 era, and I think people were looking on his efforts and productivity with rose colored glasses. He'd play a good quarter and a bit every 2nd or 3rd week, and people would be like "Wwwwwoooowwww, Dusty is SO good".
Remember, I'm talking about the longevity of his greatness. There are 9 players with 7 or 8 AA jackets, and I don't know how many with 5 or 6. The shortening of the games and season in 2020 probably helped Dusty get that 4th jacket. Without Covid happening, there's a good chance he'd have "only" three!
I think the longevity of his greatness is over-rated. Because he had 2 really good seasons, and one absolutely amazing season (2017), it came across as he was still "marvelled" for a good quarter here or there. Outside of those seasons, there wasn't enough consistency in his greatness. To put it into to perspective, outside of trading on name and reputation, if they picked a best team every 5 years, he'd only make the 2016-2020 team. Absolutely the best player in the comp 2017, but he was only AA 4 times. Remove that 2016-2020 era, and I think people were looking on his efforts and productivity with rose colored glasses. He'd play a good quarter and a bit every 2nd or 3rd week, and people would be like "Wwwwwoooowwww, Dusty is SO good".
Remember, I'm talking about the longevity of his greatness. There are 9 players with 7 or 8 AA jackets, and I don't know how many with 5 or 6. The shortening of the games and season in 2020 probably helped Dusty get that 4th jacket. Without Covid happening, there's a good chance he'd have "only" three!
Try to avoid the Dusty discussions but:
Not huge fan of using AA but people forget he was also AA squad 2014 (3rd B & F) & 2015 (2nd B & F) in mid level team & somehow missed squad in 2019 despite being top 5 in C Data's player ratings for year.
So 6 squads out of 7 isn't too shabby, obviously he's no Tom Stewart.
Not huge fan of using AA but people forget he was also AA squad 2014 (3rd B & F) & 2015 (2nd B & F) in mid level team & somehow missed squad in 2019 despite being top 5 in C Data's player ratings for year.
So 6 squads out of 7 isn't too shabby, obviously he's no Tom Stewart.
How does one even measure greatness? 
Is the player who, when he turned it on, literally took premierships away from the opposition, great?
Or is the player who consistently willed his team into finals or winning positions over a decade great?
I think you can make an argument for both.
As for calling Dusty a legend, people will remember him more than any other player from those grand finals, so I think it's just about justified as well?
Is the player who, when he turned it on, literally took premierships away from the opposition, great?
Or is the player who consistently willed his team into finals or winning positions over a decade great?
I think you can make an argument for both.
As for calling Dusty a legend, people will remember him more than any other player from those grand finals, so I think it's just about justified as well?
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The post called him one of the greatest to ever do it, because statistically, he is the best finals player ever. Does this not qualify him to be one of the greatest players of all time?
AA seems to be what this 'overratedness' is centered around, but what stock is there to put into it? Josh Kennedy was one of the best players of the 2010 era, and didn't even make the final team in 2015 when he averaged 31 disposals that season and polled 25 Brownlow votes to finish 4th lol.
There's additional support to that argument using the guy in question here, as Dusty realistically should've made the 2019 final AA squad, but didn't. Merrett in 2016 is another example, along with Shuey in 2017, and there are probably many more I could just as easily find.
I'm not sure what was in the original post that made you question his 'longevity of greatness' (since it wasn't a point of discussion originally in this thread), but it honestly just seems like a really lame and disingenuous attempt at bringing up some personal discourse, and reads as nothing more than small-minded jealousy or hatred.
What about the other guy that retired today? One of the best key forwards for over a decade, and only won the Coleman Medal once. Is he overrated? Should his career be called into question?
AA seems to be what this 'overratedness' is centered around, but what stock is there to put into it? Josh Kennedy was one of the best players of the 2010 era, and didn't even make the final team in 2015 when he averaged 31 disposals that season and polled 25 Brownlow votes to finish 4th lol.
There's additional support to that argument using the guy in question here, as Dusty realistically should've made the 2019 final AA squad, but didn't. Merrett in 2016 is another example, along with Shuey in 2017, and there are probably many more I could just as easily find.
I'm not sure what was in the original post that made you question his 'longevity of greatness' (since it wasn't a point of discussion originally in this thread), but it honestly just seems like a really lame and disingenuous attempt at bringing up some personal discourse, and reads as nothing more than small-minded jealousy or hatred.
What about the other guy that retired today? One of the best key forwards for over a decade, and only won the Coleman Medal once. Is he overrated? Should his career be called into question?
Really not sure what you think I'm jealous of. It would be great if you could clarify that. My opinion, which I'm entitled to, says he had 3 good seasons. One of which was spectacularly great. The other seasons, were not on a level that I would have thought warrant him the moniker as a "great of the game". I'm of the opinion, that the pundits and journalists keep viewing his better efforts over the past few seasons, through those 2017 glasses. They want him to be the player he was, that they remembered. But truth be known, he rarely scaled those heights in the odd game here or there, let alone consistently. He's not the only player to dine out on a reputation built on 3 good/great seasons, and he won't be the last. If you were picking the 50 best players in the past 10 seasons, with an eye on consistency over that period, rather than 3 years of greatness, he probably wouldn't make the top 25. Sure, many people would put him in the top 20. But, I think they're missing the selection criteria I put up. Consistency at that level, for more than 3-4 seasons.
I find it comical you think I'm jealous, as for the life of me, why would I be jealous of him particularly over anyone of a 100 current and former players?
I find it comical you think I'm jealous, as for the life of me, why would I be jealous of him particularly over anyone of a 100 current and former players?
This feels like an overreaction to me.. no one is denying his best was phenomenal, the 2017 was incredible and 3 norm smiths is definitely next level.
But it’s also not an unfair thing to say that he didn’t maintain that level consistently or for long periods of time.
My 2 cents is that he often turned it on when it was needed but otherwise didn’t always hit the levels he was capable of. No criticism in that, just an observation.
Would I put him in the top players of the last 15 years? Definitely. If I needed to select a team to play for the fate of the world, would I pick him? You bet. If I wanted to get the best players together to show off our great game in a series of exhibition matches? Probably not.
One thing I will say though, is you can disagree with someone’s opinion without getting personal.
But it’s also not an unfair thing to say that he didn’t maintain that level consistently or for long periods of time.
My 2 cents is that he often turned it on when it was needed but otherwise didn’t always hit the levels he was capable of. No criticism in that, just an observation.
Would I put him in the top players of the last 15 years? Definitely. If I needed to select a team to play for the fate of the world, would I pick him? You bet. If I wanted to get the best players together to show off our great game in a series of exhibition matches? Probably not.
One thing I will say though, is you can disagree with someone’s opinion without getting personal.
Just some data on Dusty's finals record,not looking to fan the flames.
Make of it what you will,I'd say the 2017 GF Norm Smith looks safe on these numbers
View: https://twitter.com/i/web1116sen/status/1820976902355710387?t=7rCEhRRp3KxxGFfx8TsyzQ&s=19
Make of it what you will,I'd say the 2017 GF Norm Smith looks safe on these numbers
View: https://twitter.com/i/web1116sen/status/1820976902355710387?t=7rCEhRRp3KxxGFfx8TsyzQ&s=19
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