Discussion 2025: AFL SuperCoach Discussion - OPEN

Do you start a $669k Gawn?

  • Yes

  • No


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For me I think it comes down to how many you are starting with the same bye. Being best 18 and with the introduction of the flex position, and being so early in the season that we should have the majority of our 31 players (byes excluded) playing means I think it's more manageable than people realise.

If you field 23, plus have a loop on 3 lines, you have 26 scores to get 18. Even allowing for the wrong players to be benched to take a good E score, you should be more than fine as by doing so that E score likely goes into your best 18, meaning you have more changes to drop poor scores.

I actually think a bye in round 2 is optimal as we should have the best starting 31 between those we picked who were named in round 1, and any correction trades. The idea that you lose X points because you are fielding a rookie over a premium isn't exactly accurate, because you have so many chances to make your 18th score better vs someone who has an extra premium on field but potentially different rookies or premiums.

In a vacuum, premium over rookie will likely score more points, but I don't think the difference is season defining. If you had 2-3 in that round 2 bye it might be different, but if it's just Flanders then I think it's easily absorbable.
People really overrate how good their rookies will be.

I know for a fact that I ignored the byes last season and it cost me at least 60 points in every bye that I had a player missing. Pretty sure the best score I had as the 18th was a 61 from memory with a couple of 50s and, luckily, a 40 something in one of the rounds that I didn't have to take that 19th score as I hadn't picked any premiums from that bye.

The simple fact is that you're playing your 19th best player while everyone else is fielding a premium in that spot. So it's ~110+ points against ~60. You could get incredibly lucky and have 7 odd rookies that you field all score 100+ but it's insanely unlikely and you should be planning on a 60 type score, for Flanders that's 60 points lost if he plays to his price.

The full rosters is actually a negative as it means the only guy you can loop is that missing premium, so at most 2 lines. Later on would actually be better where you're more likely to have a couple of dead rookies floating around.

There are reasons to pick him still. The obvious is that you think he's got 10 points of upside, he's Dane Swan like as a player so it's definitely possible that he does improve further, I don't think 130 is impossible for him. You might also think that none of the other options are better. The only other premium backs to pick from are Sheezel, Ryan, McGovern, Sinclair, Clark and NWM if I cut off at 100. I can make a case against all of them that has them being 10 points overpriced or unlikely to improve and, unfortunately, we really do have to pick a certain amount of backs still so it's not as simple as just spend that money elsewhere. You can also only realistically pick 2 of Clark, Ryan, Sinclair and NWM without basically just kicking the problem to their bye with interest given a lot of other players from those teams are relevant at other positions.

Personally, I like Stewart and Holmes more if going for a premium level defender with the bye as I think their 10+ improvement scenario is stronger than Flanders. Albeit Flanders does have a lot better premium certainty to me. Even then, I'd probably prefer as an early upgrade target post bye barring enormous r0 scores that are going to kill the value.

Mills is a different story given he's potentially 50 points underpriced on his best.
 
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People really overrate how good their rookies will be.

I know for a fact that I ignored the byes last season and it cost me at least 60 points in every bye that I had a player missing. Pretty sure the best score I had as the 18th was a 61 from memory with a couple of 50s and, luckily, a 40 something in one of the rounds that I didn't have to take that 19th score as I hadn't picked any premiums from that bye.

The simple fact is that you're playing your 19th best player while everyone else is fielding a premium in that spot. So it's ~110+ points against ~60. You could get incredibly lucky and have 7 odd rookies that you field all score 100+ but it's insanely unlikely and you should be planning on a 60 type score, for Flanders that's 60 points lost if he plays to his price.

The full rosters is actually a negative as it means the only guy you can loop is that missing premium, so at most 2 lines. Later on would actually be better where you're more likely to have a couple of dead rookies floating around.

There are reasons to pick him still. The obvious is that you think he's got 10 points of upside, he's Dane Swan like as a player so it's definitely possible that he does improve further, I don't think 130 is impossible for him. You might also think that none of the other options are better. The only other premium backs to pick from are Sheezel, Ryan, McGovern, Sinclair, Clark and NWM if I cut off at 100. I can make a case against all of them that has them being 10 points overpriced or unlikely to improve and, unfortunately, we really do have to pick a certain amount of backs still so it's not as simple as just spend that money elsewhere. You can also only realistically pick 2 of Clark, Ryan, Sinclair and NWM without basically just kicking the problem to their bye with interest given a lot of other players from those teams are relevant at other positions.

Personally, I like Stewart and Holmes more if going for a premium level defender with the bye as I think their 10+ improvement scenario is stronger than Flanders. Albeit Flanders does have a lot better premium certainty to me. Even then, I'd probably prefer as an early upgrade target post bye barring enormous r0 scores that are going to kill the value.

Mills is a different story given he's potentially 50 points underpriced on his best.
Yeah I get the premium vs 60 point rookie logic and it’s not wrong, but I think having the right premium is more important that the avoided bye given I think there is a chance scores fall in a way that it’s not a 60 point hole. So really does come down to how you rate Flanders vs the rest.

FWIW I currently have Flanders, Sinclair and Sheezel. Not that I’m locked on that and the cost is up there, but with all the MP value I’m not starting as many rolled gold premiums as normal so want to go for who I’m most confident finish top for their line. Don’t want to be locked into chasing these guys while everyone else has the flexibility to get the value picks that come across the season.
 
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Lots of noise surrounding the RK set up at the Eagle. What do you know.?? Its been decided Flynn will be the #1.

Very risky considering this RK set up.
I just don’t rate B Williams as a tap ruckman, Flynn is an old school type ruck that at least gives a good contest. No indication yet who is the preferred main ruck. Yep very risky but certainly an option pending preseason games.
 
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Yeah I get the premium vs 60 point rookie logic and it’s not wrong, but I think having the right premium is more important that the avoided bye given I think there is a chance scores fall in a way that it’s not a 60 point hole. So really does come down to how you rate Flanders vs the rest.

FWIW I currently have Flanders, Sinclair and Sheezel. Not that I’m locked on that and the cost is up there, but with all the MP value I’m not starting as many rolled gold premiums as normal so want to go for who I’m most confident finish top for their line. Don’t want to be locked into chasing these guys while everyone else has the flexibility to get the value picks that come across the season.
Phillipou going down has made my decision to start Flanders so much easier!

Short was my final selection as I needed a defender and had 450K left in the bank. I wanted Flanders but couldn’t find a way to bring him in without compromising other lines…

Now it’s as simple as:
Phillipou > S. Davidson (Curtain on field)
Short > Flanders

Phillipou was a must have in my opinion but getting a gun and a rookie in for two midpricers just feels right!!!
 

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so I guess for me, it might come down to how well he performs in Rd 0.
Best not to place too much importance on Round 0 given the score does not count for SC overall, it is only in the price cycle for one round and the sample size from last season would be a greater reference. A 85-99 score may be better than a 120+ given the expectation would be overreaction either way. 120+ means he is a must have and we need to find a way to squeeze him in after viewing him as an upgrade target for the majority of the preseason whereas all confidence is lost in the selection if he goes sub 100 with the price and ownership set to plummet.
 
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Phillipou going down has made my decision to start Flanders so much easier!

Short was my final selection as I needed a defender and had 450K left in the bank. I wanted Flanders but couldn’t find a way to bring him in without compromising other lines…

Now it’s as simple as:
Phillipou > S. Davidson (Curtain on field)
Short > Flanders

Phillipou was a must have in my opinion but getting a gun and a rookie in for two midpricers just feels right!!!
Solid changes!
 
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It looks like a few are focusing on chasing value in the rucks. I was just interested to see if this was the best line to do this and did a very quick summary. I am not on my laptop, so can't put this data into a table easily unfortunately.

In 2024:
Defenders: 186 played enough games to change in value. 91 gained in value (49%), 28 made 100K+ (15%). 95 dropped in value (51%), 19 by 100K+ (10%).

Midfielders: 182 played enough games to change in value. 90 gained in value (49%), 22 made 100K+ (12%). 92 dropped in value (51%), 25 by 100K+ (14%).

Rucks: 30 played enough games to change in value. 12 gained in value (40%), 7 made 100K+ (23%). 18 dropped in value (60%), 3 by 100K+ (10%).

Forwards: 213 played enough games to change in value. 99 gained in value (46%), 31 made 100K+ (15%). 114 dropped in value (54%), 27 by 100K+ (13%).

There's not a heap in it, but rucks are actually more likely to lose cash than any other position based on last year. The chances of a big cash gain are a bit better for rucks, but there should be plenty of value options on any line - around 1 in 8 players will increase by 100K+ (likely more at lower starting prices).

I realised after starting this, it would be better to limit the sample size a bit, or break it into price bands, but I don't have the raw data (starting / final prices) in a handy format to do this, so thought I'd post what I found anyway. It's not the most useful analysis, but not surprisingly does seem to suggest that cheaper rucks are not the only way to make significant cash. From experience, less bail out options if something happens too.
 
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I wonder if it's worth picking a side without any 2024 draftees unless they're really cheap, and instead going for players with AFL experience or more time in the system to try to avoid the issues that come with newcomers trying to get used to the rigours of AFL.

So no Jagga, no LAshcroft, no Trav, no Smillie etc.
I’m seeing a lot of sides with several of them but it wouldn’t surprise me if most of us end up with just a couple at most.

The two I’m most bullish on are Jagga and Langford. Outside of that, I think the roles won’t be there to justify the price or they simply won’t be there round 1.
 
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I wonder if it's worth picking a side without any 2024 draftees unless they're really cheap, and instead going for players with AFL experience or more time in the system to try to avoid the issues that come with newcomers trying to get used to the rigours of AFL.

So no Jagga, no LAshcroft, no Trav, no Smillie etc.
Agreed!
First year players in my squad: Travaglia, B. Allan, J. Smith, Davidson, H. Boyd

Non-first year players in my squad: K. Smith (10%), Leake (7%), O’Driscall (2%), E. Allan (8%), Tsatas (6%), Sheldrick (5%), Hewett, El-Hawli*, Hewett, Lynch, Powell-Pepper, Curtain

My early bet is the ownership percentages of Smith, Leake, O’Driscall, E. Allan, Tsatas & Sheldrick will have tripled by round 1!!!
 
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Agreed!
First year players in my squad: Travaglia, B. Allan, J. Smith, Davidson, H. Boyd

Non-first year players in my squad: K. Smith (10%), Leake (7%), O’Driscall (2%), E. Allan (8%), Tsatas (6%), Sheldrick (5%), Hewett, El-Hawli*, Hewett, Lynch, Powell-Pepper, Curtain

My early bet is the ownership percentages of Smith, Leake, O’Driscall, E. Allan, Tsatas & Sheldrick will have tripled by round 1!!!
Erasmus also might lock in a spot (BOG in the WAFL GF), Hutchinson slightly pricier but with a positional change looks great value
 
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I wonder if it's worth picking a side without any 2024 draftees unless they're really cheap, and instead going for players with AFL experience or more time in the system to try to avoid the issues that come with newcomers trying to get used to the rigours of AFL.

So no Jagga, no LAshcroft, no Trav, no Smillie etc.
It's hard to see how they get the roles they need. Even Travaglia at the Saints playing in the back line has to compete with Sinclair, NWM and Schoenmakers who is a great kick. And Richmond would still like to play Taranto, Hopper and Prestia in the middle and will have limited scoring opportunities up forward. I would pick Levi Ashcroft. He could be a vey good half forward flank in a good team and doesn't need a pure mid role to have some good scores.

Edit: Just reading about Jagga Smith and could add him to the very good high half forward role in a good team like Levi.
 
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